Author Topic: My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?  (Read 71945 times)

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?
« Reply #200 on: May 22, 2016, 10:36:03 AM »
She's not an atheist - she calls herself a "freelance monotheist."
You call yourself an atheist pantheist.

Shaker

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Re: My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?
« Reply #201 on: May 22, 2016, 10:38:15 AM »
You call yourself an atheist pantheist.
News to me.
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SusanDoris

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Re: My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?
« Reply #202 on: May 22, 2016, 10:42:25 AM »

...materialist anti or irreligionists will have to come to a new understanding of human meaning and value.
We are always having to update and improve our understanding of human value,but can you define what  you think this should be?

As far as 'human meaning'' is concerned, that is of course each human's individual choice.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 01:18:08 PM by SusanDoris »
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Gonnagle

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Re: My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?
« Reply #203 on: May 22, 2016, 10:56:39 AM »
Dear Vlad,

The man is an atheist, 100% dyed in the wool atheist, but ( and it's a big but ) he is also human, which makes him a religious and a spiritual creature, same as me and you, there is a wee part within him and all atheists which says, hang on, is my thinking right, am I missing something, it's there, a little itch that they just can't reach to scratch, forums like this help, they can shout at us, it helps ease the irritation.

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Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?
« Reply #204 on: May 22, 2016, 11:02:48 AM »
Dear Vlad,

The man is an atheist, 100% dyed in the wool atheist, but ( and it's a big but ) he is also human, which makes him a religious and a spiritual creature, same as me and you, there is a wee part within him and all atheists which says, hang on, is my thinking right, am I missing something, it's there, a little itch that they just can't reach to scratch, forums like this help, they can shout at us, it helps ease the irritation.

Gonnagle.
Spot on as usual Mr G.

Ricky Spanish

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Re: My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?
« Reply #205 on: May 22, 2016, 11:09:53 AM »
Nah!! Sorry not buying that, last time I looked atheists are human, no really they are :P

Gonnagle.

Hey Wee Free..  what if you never had a religion in the first place. How would you categorise them?
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bluehillside Retd.

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Re: My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?
« Reply #206 on: May 22, 2016, 11:10:22 AM »
Gonners,

Quote
Nah!! Sorry not buying that, last time I looked atheists are human, no really they are :P

I think perhaps that Torri was making an ironic play on the "No true Scotsman" fallacy.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 11:15:08 AM by bluehillside »
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Stranger

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Re: My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?
« Reply #207 on: May 22, 2016, 11:10:46 AM »
The man is an atheist, 100% dyed in the wool atheist, but ( and it's a big but ) he is also human, which makes him a religious and a spiritual creature....

How do you know?
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bluehillside Retd.

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Re: My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?
« Reply #208 on: May 22, 2016, 11:14:50 AM »
Gonners,

Quote
The man is an atheist, 100% dyed in the wool atheist, but ( and it's a big but ) he is also human, which makes him a religious and a spiritual creature, same as me and you, there is a wee part within him and all atheists which says, hang on, is my thinking right, am I missing something, it's there, a little itch that they just can't reach to scratch, forums like this help, they can shout at us, it helps ease the irritation.

Doubt - or uncertainty - is the first of Bertrand Russell's principles posted earlier and in my view it's the most important. Would that more of the religious allowed for the possibility at least of no god(s).

Allowing for the possibility of being wrong though does not make you a card-carrying member of the religious, the "spiritual" etc.
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Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?
« Reply #209 on: May 22, 2016, 11:19:27 AM »
Would that more of the religious allowed for the possibility at least of no god(s).

There is no evidence that any antitheist has been made any better a person for holding that view.

Gonnagle

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Re: My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?
« Reply #210 on: May 22, 2016, 11:19:47 AM »
Dear Farmer,

Quote
Hey Wee Free..  what if you never had a religion in the first place. How would you categorise them?

I think the point is, religious = human.

Dear Blue,

Quote
I thunk perhaps that Torri was making an ironic play on the "No true Scotsman" fallacy.

Jeremyp old chap.

Dear Stranger,

Quote
How do you know?

Oh! you know, little hints, like history, science, stuff like that ;)

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bluehillside Retd.

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Re: My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?
« Reply #211 on: May 22, 2016, 11:24:09 AM »
Gonners,

Quote
Jeremyp old chap.

Quite right too - my apologies to both. The point though stands.
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jeremyp

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Re: My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?
« Reply #212 on: May 22, 2016, 11:25:07 AM »
Dear Jeremyp,

Nah!! Sorry not buying that, last time I looked atheists are human, no really they are :P

Gonnagle.

Good. I can tell that to all the Christians who say tell me I was never a true Christian.
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jeremyp

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Re: My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?
« Reply #213 on: May 22, 2016, 11:26:40 AM »
Yeh, but it was pretty cosmopolitan around there at that time...and under Roman Occupation.
And yet, when you point that out to some Christians by telling them their religion has quite a lot of Greek influence in it, they try to deny it.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 12:30:58 PM by jeremyp »
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bluehillside Retd.

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Re: My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?
« Reply #214 on: May 22, 2016, 11:29:35 AM »
Gonners,

PS - While I here Im listening to Karen Armstrong on Desert Island Discs play again:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0093vvb

You'd enjoy it I think. The music's good, she's a good speaker and I've only rolled my eyes in despair twice  ;)
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Gonnagle

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Re: My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?
« Reply #215 on: May 22, 2016, 11:33:13 AM »
Dear Jeremyp,

Quote
Good. I can tell that to all the Christians who say tell me I was never a true Christian.

Go for it mate, I doubt the little band of Christians on here could come to a consensus on what a true Christian is, for me it is simple, Salvation through Our Lord Jesus Christ, nothing more, nothing less.

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Stranger

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Re: My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?
« Reply #216 on: May 22, 2016, 11:36:00 AM »
Oh! you know, little hints, like history, science, stuff like that ;)

You made a very specific claim, that to be human made one a "religious and a spiritual creature". Now there has been an awful lot of religions in history and a lot of other superstitions as well. I'd accept that to be human means to have a tendency to be superstitious and see agency where there is none, but a "religious creature"?

Can you define exactly what you meant and in what way you think history and science back it up?
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Re: My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?
« Reply #217 on: May 22, 2016, 11:36:25 AM »
Dear Jeremyp,

Go for it mate, I doubt the little band of Christians on here could come to a consensus on what a true Christian is, for me it is simple, Salvation through Our Lord Jesus Christ, nothing more, nothing less.

Gonnagle.

That is just a cliché. 

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?
« Reply #218 on: May 22, 2016, 11:36:55 AM »
Gonners,

Quote
Go for it mate, I doubt the little band of Christians on here could come to a consensus on what a true Christian is, for me it is simple, Salvation through Our Lord Jesus Christ, nothing more, nothing less.

No claims that The Flintstones was a documentary?

I'm disappointed!
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Rhiannon

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Re: My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?
« Reply #219 on: May 22, 2016, 11:38:34 AM »
Dear Jeremyp,

Go for it mate, I doubt the little band of Christians on here could come to a consensus on what a true Christian is, for me it is simple, Salvation through Our Lord Jesus Christ, nothing more, nothing less.

Gonnagle.

Penal substitution? Don't get it.

Unless you mean salvation in this world. That I do get.

Gonnagle

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Re: My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?
« Reply #220 on: May 22, 2016, 11:40:23 AM »
Dear Blue,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0093vvb

Cheers mate, yer a star. ;)

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Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?
« Reply #221 on: May 22, 2016, 12:09:29 PM »
And yet, when you point that out to some Christians by telling them there religion has quite a lot of Greek influence in it, they try to deny it.

Not sure what you mean by this.
There were certainly platonic/neoplatonic and logos thought influences on Christian theology and doctrine but then even philosophically minded church fathers saw Greek philosophy as merely a schoolmaster leading the Greek world to Christ as Moses and the prophets ultimately had led the Jewish world to Christ and Jesus as the ultimate logos or reason why the universe was so reasonable......Tertullian was able to dissociate faith and Christ even further from philosophy.

Faith in Christ is not 'a philosophy' Jeremy and so Christians keen on you having faith in Christ might want to shift you away from mere acceptance of some of the philosophy surrounding.

Gonnagle

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Re: My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?
« Reply #222 on: May 22, 2016, 12:29:00 PM »
Dear Stranger,

Quote
Can you define exactly what you meant and in what way you think history and science back it up?

I will give it a bash, where to start, well us, us mere humans, religion has been with us, well when has religion not been with us, Karen Armstrong in one of her books takes it all the way back to some cave painting in France, something like 75 thousand years ago, one of the figures in these paintings has been recognised as a Shaman/Priest/Holy man, he is shown to be crying over some kind of beast that has just been killed.

Now the Myth is that these Holy men are easing the poor beast into the spiritual world, now this Myth, this thought has been backed up by studying tribes in Africa, they also cry over their prey.

That is one part of the history bit, another is, I remember posting about this back on the old Beeb, some tribe on a remote island untouched by civilisation, but they were religious, they had their own religion.

History tells us that we are religious creatures, part of what we are.

Then we have the link old Sane posted weeks ago, something about Apes showing signs of religion, they seem to have a special tree or place, so religious practice could be in us even before we began to walk upright.

The science, well dodgy ground but, I am told we are mean seeking creatures, it is what we do, why we do it? but we seem to have evolved to make sense of the world, we don't like not knowing.

We then have the scientific study that we are born believers, contentious, yes, but to me it makes perfect sense, religion is in our genes, you do something for long enough it becomes part of what we are, and is this not how evolution works, the creatures who learn to adapt to their environment survive, religion and spirituality help us survive.

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Gonnagle

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Re: My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?
« Reply #223 on: May 22, 2016, 12:33:52 PM »
Dear Rhiannon,

Quote
Unless you mean salvation in this world. That I do get.

Exactly, for me Christianity is about life, how we live, when yer pan bread, well that is Gods business.

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jeremyp

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Re: My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?
« Reply #224 on: May 22, 2016, 12:33:58 PM »

Not sure what you mean by this.
There were certainly platonic/neoplatonic and logos thought influences on Christian theology and doctrine but then even philosophically minded church fathers saw Greek philosophy as merely a schoolmaster leading the Greek world to Christ as Moses and the prophets ultimately had led the Jewish world to Christ and Jesus as the ultimate logos or reason why the universe was so reasonable......Tertullian was able to dissociate faith and Christ even further from philosophy.

Faith in Christ is not 'a philosophy' Jeremy and so Christians keen on you having faith in Christ might want to shift you away from mere acceptance of some of the philosophy surrounding.

Ancient Greece is not synonymous with philosophy.

Christianity is a fusion of Greek mystery religion with Judaism. This should not be surprising since the World in which Christianity arose was overwhelmingly Greek in culture.
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