My 'Truth' or 'YOUR 'truth'?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Ancient Greece is not synonymous with philosophy.

Christianity is a fusion of Greek mystery religion with Judaism.

In what way?
And why should that matter anyway? As the Great MrGonnagle has stated religion has been with us for a long time. Factor in the divine and we have known vaguely and universally that Christ was on his way.
But philosophy or even religion doesn't help us comprehensively with what to do with him........that is down to us.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Vlad,

Hell!! I am wondering about this bit.

Ancient Greece is not synonymous with philosophy.

Gonnagle.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Dear Vlad,

Hell!! I am wondering about this bit.

Gonnagle.

Yikes, I see what you mean.
I think it was CEM Joad who said there was Plato and then the rest is footnotes. A bit of an exaggeration but Plato was an ancient Greek as were those who can be allowed as the greats.

What worries me is that like Jeremy, the new atheists junk the philosophical heritage and concentrate on modern philosophers sympathetic with their cause. This is the kind of intellectual cherry picking that I find renders New atheism as fundamentalist. Why even greats like Marx, Sartre, De Beauvoir and Camus are left back in the changing room for being the wrong sort of atheist.....
Just mention 'existential' to Hillside and see what happens.

[SusanDoris]

Further comment on 'Sapiens':
I do not like his assessment of what he calls three types of humanism - very negative and rather disparaging I think.

I agree with his description of homo sapiens as being able to group together in large numbers because of belief in shared myths and stories which produced the idea of gods.

[Shaker]

Further comment on 'Sapiens':
I do not like his assessment of what he calls three types of humanism - very negative and rather disparaging I think.

I've just used Amazon's look inside feature to see what he says about humanism and it really is utter twaddle with jam on top.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Further comment on 'Sapiens':
I do not like his assessment of what he calls three types of humanism - very negative and rather disparaging I think.

I agree with his description of homo sapiens as being able to group together in large numbers because of belief in shared myths and stories which produced the idea of gods.

Thanks Susan.
On a brief reading of his Wikipedia I had him down as very much an atheist pin up boy.

I can't see how he actually supports the notion of the 'Useless Human' but is rather warning us that that will be the ultimate classification of Billions using all the Secular indicators.

I am interested that you find him disparaging of humanism.

[SusanDoris]

In fact, I am considering stopping listening and skipping to the end!! I'll give it a couple more sections and then decide.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Blue,

Well I wasn't stunned by her choice of music on desert island, I enjoyed the Gregorian chant and the Muslim chant was nice but the rest did nothing for me, probably me an uncultured lout

But a thought has been growing in my wee brain cells, the story behind, Armstrong knows the story behind her choice of music, that photo on another thread about the naked man holding the sick child, it didn't resonate until I read the story behind, Turners "The Fighting Temeraire" is beautiful but when you read the story behind it takes on a higher beauty, old warship going to the breakers yard.

What is that all about, the story behind

Gonnagle.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Hi Gonners,

Well I wasn't stunned by her choice of music on desert island, I enjoyed the Gregorian chant and the Muslim chant was nice but the rest did nothing for me, probably me an uncultured lout

Peasant 

Yes, I liked those two too. Still a nice selection re the rest I thought.

But a thought has been growing in my wee brain cells, the story behind, Armstrong knows the story behind her choice of music, that photo on another thread about the naked man holding the sick child, it didn't resonate until I read the story behind, Turners "The Fighting Temeraire" is beautiful but when you read the story behind it takes on a higher beauty, old warship going to the breakers yard.

What is that all about, the story behind

This is resonant of the old charge that we materialists are reductionist, limited, unappreciative of the deeper things whereas that strikes me as presumptuous and arrogant: as someone once said, the flowers in the garden are no less beautiful for knowing about chlorophyll. Why in other words wouldn't knowing the story behind the immediate response enrich by adding depth and knowledge rather than diminish the experience?

[Gonnagle]

Dear blue,

Very true, knowing the science only increases your joy, in fact it increase your wonder and awe, but I suppose us humans just love a good story, Pratchett chuntered on about it all the time, he coined the word, narratavium, we humans need a good story, maybe that is part of why I am a Christian, greatest story ever told.

Gonnagle.

[Shaker]

Dear blue,

Very true, knowing the science only increases your joy, in fact it increase your wonder and awe, but I suppose us humans just love a good story, Pratchett chuntered on about it all the time, he coined the word, narratavium, we humans need a good story, maybe that is part of why I am a Christian, greatest story ever told.

Gonnagle.

I can only assume you haven't seen The Expendables.

[jeremyp]

Dear Vlad,

Hell!! I am wondering about this bit.

Gonnagle.

Why? It seems pretty obvious to me. I said Christianity is partly Greek in origin. Vlad immediately started waffling on about philosophy as though that is all Ancient Greece was about. First century Hellenism was vastly more than philosophy.

[jeremyp]

the new atheists junk the philosophical heritage

You tried to junk everything else.

 

[Gonnagle]

Dear Jeremyp,

Why? It seems pretty obvious to me. I said Christianity is partly Greek in origin. Vlad immediately started waffling on about philosophy as though that is all Ancient Greece was about. First century Hellenism was vastly more than philosophy.

Fair enough, you are probably more read on first century Hellenism, me, it just seems I can't pick up a science book, philosophy book without some Greek being mentioned, Achilles chasing after a tortoise, why, it's all Greek to me.

Up yours Trip

Gonnagle.

[trippymonkey]

tortoise's what ?!?!?!?!

[ippy]

I think you are misrepresenting what you believe about Muslim with what Christ actually says:

There is no connection and it cannot be deemed the same thing.

Christ says " If you obey my commandments and keep my words you will know the truth and if the words he speaks comes from himself or God. In fact God will with Christ reveal themselves to the individual.
Islam makes NO SUCH PROMISE.

So you are deliberately misrepresenting something else to mean the same as Christ and God revealing themselves.
NOT THE SAME THING AT ALL. So you cannot use what you have said as any kind of comparison.

Sass, you really can't put the assersatron down, put it away for five minutes and explain the bit in this post of your's where you say, "Christ says", please explain, how do you know; you often say things like this and other statements of a similar nature and never offer anything that would back up these statements of yours?

Why can't you answer Sass, too embarrassing?

ippy

[Dicky Underpants]

tortoise's what ?!?!?!?!

Commonly known as Zeno's paradox.

I'll get me coat.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Blue,

Story telling, we are all just a bunch of Confabulators, don't worry, I know what I mean, it is that wee course Torridon got me interested in, very interesting stuff.

Gonnagle.

[Khatru]

Dear Jeremyp,

Go for it mate, I doubt the little band of Christians on here could come to a consensus on what a true Christian is, for me it is simple, Salvation through Our Lord Jesus Christ, nothing more, nothing less.

Gonnagle.

Please bear with me, I'm way behind on this thread.

I was just wondering how you reconcile this with one of your earlier posts in which you stated that what the Bible god wants from us is to love our neighbour, live in peace and harmony and be compassionate and empathic.

All of the above is in keeping with the Golden Rule and can be achieved without being a Christian.

Are you saying that accepting Jesus is greater than the Golden Rule and therefore ranks higher in the Bible god's expectations for humanity?

[Rhiannon]

You may have noticed that I'm not Gonners, but I did used to be his side of the fence and his Christianity is that I relate to the most of the posters here.

The 'golden rule' was always what mattered most to me in terms of what I did and if you want to call it a 'requirement' then maybe it is. But salvation is what you feel you need. I stopped believing myself to be rotten with the son of Adam but more importantly I decided no just God would demand a blood price for my mistakes. I screw up, I pay, I make amends. If I can.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I stopped believing myself to be rotten with the son of Adam but more importantly I decided no just God would demand a blood price for my mistakes. I screw up, I pay, I make amends. If I can.

I think you are playing down the comfort afforded by adopting relative morality here which, at the end of the day allows one just to shut the door on moral issues.

[Rhiannon]

I think you are playing down the comfort afforded by adopting relative morality here which, at the end of the day allows one just to shut the door on moral issues.

You know I do that how? Because I'm not a Christian like you?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You know I do that how? Because I'm not a Christian like you?

I can't see how you can say having a relative morality doesn't or couldn't relieve you of the burden of ultimate committal.

[Rhiannon]

Committal to what?

[Stranger]

I think you are playing down the comfort afforded by adopting relative morality here which, at the end of the day allows one just to shut the door on moral issues.

In what way "shut the door"?

How is it different to adopting "objective" morality without any objective means of knowing what it is?