Author Topic: Beautiful or outrageous?  (Read 8694 times)

L.A.

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Re: Beautiful or outrageous?
« Reply #75 on: May 21, 2016, 02:42:06 PM »

What the the leveller of head amongst us are patiently trying to explain is that the fear of such things is ludicrously disproportionate to the actual risk, and that leads to people giving in to what we can only call paedo-paranoia by censoring themselves and refraining from sharing what's special and important to them, which for many people (and by rights all parents, by definition) is their children.

Yes, some people go too far - but your attitude sounds complacent in the extreme.

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I don't do social media either - I have no interest in it, being resolutely unsocial. But as much as it's a mystery to me, it means something to a hell of a lot of people and their activities shouldn't be and needn't be curtailed by grotesquely overinflated and irrational fears of random hordes of paedophiles wanking themselves into a subarachnoid haemorrhage because they've shared a harmless photo with their online friends of little Philip or Karen in the paddling pool. There is a climate of this sort of feeble-wittedness across society in general these days with all manner of things and people need to stand up to it.
Social media is the whole problem (imo)

My fear would be that paedophile would see a 'provocative' photo of a child and work out where they lived. Probably not too difficult with social media.
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Shaker

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Re: Beautiful or outrageous?
« Reply #76 on: May 21, 2016, 02:45:31 PM »
Yes, some people go too far - but your attitude sounds complacent in the extreme.
No, I don't think so. I'm aware of risk but also have it in proportion - which you, with your heavy-breathing, sweaty-palmed scenarios of random paedophiles trying to trace a child's home address via clues in photos on Facebook, certainly appear not to, to me.

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Social media is the whole problem (imo)
Whether it is or it isn't (and social media is only what you choose to do with it), it isn't going anywhere now.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2016, 02:47:41 PM by Shaker »
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L.A.

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Re: Beautiful or outrageous?
« Reply #77 on: May 21, 2016, 02:57:54 PM »
No, I don't think so. I'm aware of risk but also have it in proportion - which you, with your heavy-breathing, sweaty-palmed scenarios of random paedophiles trying to trace a child's home address via clues in photos on Facebook, certainly appear not to, to me.

You said that you don't use Facebook - so I don't know if you realise how it works. People post messages - some of which will contain information about location. For example, I noticed that my daughter was discussing something that was going on in the village hall. Strangers may even ask you innocent sounding questions that could give-away your location.
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Gordon

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Re: Beautiful or outrageous?
« Reply #78 on: May 21, 2016, 03:00:15 PM »
There is an odd inversion here that I don't quite understand: it's as if the increased ease of taking pics (since most phones are cameras too) and making them available via the internet has lead to an over-reaction in terms of risks.

Surely though there is a need to be balanced in assessing risks: by all means we should pursue the abusers and be alert for misuse, but in doing so I can't that families should feel the need to be constrained in making reasonable use of everyday technology to document their lives if they wish to.

L.A.

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Re: Beautiful or outrageous?
« Reply #79 on: May 21, 2016, 03:08:11 PM »
There is an odd inversion here that I don't quite understand: it's as if the increased ease of taking pics (since most phones are cameras too) and making them available via the internet has lead to an over-reaction in terms of risks.

Surely though there is a need to be balanced in assessing risks: by all means we should pursue the abusers and be alert for misuse, but in doing so I can't that families should feel the need to be constrained in making reasonable use of everyday technology to document their lives if they wish to.

Hi Gordon, I completely agree that families should be free to take intimate photos of their children. The problem I see is when those photos get into the public domain - which in practice, means what your facebook settings are - and facebook settings are quite difficult to work out, so people often reveal more than they intended.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2016, 03:17:40 PM by L.A. »
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Gordon

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Re: Beautiful or outrageous?
« Reply #80 on: May 21, 2016, 03:31:41 PM »
Hi Gordon, I completely agree that families should be free to take intimate photos of their children. The problem I see is when those photos get into the public domain - which in practice, means what your facebook settings are - and facebook settings are quite difficult to work out, so people often reveal more than they intended.

I don't do Facebook etc (I'm far too old and grumpy) but my kids and grandkids do, so I'm not overly familiar with this aspect of social media - but what are the known risks of family accounts being hacked?

I'd have thought those using the Internet for pornography would need to be more focused in their activities than trawling for pics given the numbers of family-use accounts.

Shaker

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Re: Beautiful or outrageous?
« Reply #81 on: May 21, 2016, 03:35:54 PM »
You said that you don't use Facebook - so I don't know if you realise how it works.
I don't use it now, but I have done, so yes, I think I know how it works.
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People post messages - some of which will contain information about location. For example, I noticed that my daughter was discussing something that was going on in the village hall. Strangers may even ask you innocent sounding questions that could give-away your location.
And the idea that these could unwittingly provide clues for predatory paedophiles to track down children to their homes would be contemptible were it not so pitiable.

In actuality it's both.
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L.A.

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Re: Beautiful or outrageous?
« Reply #82 on: May 21, 2016, 03:49:04 PM »
I don't use it now, but I have done, so yes, I think I know how it works. And the idea that these could unwittingly provide clues for predatory paedophiles to track down children to their homes would be contemptible were it not so pitiable.

In actuality it's both.

You just don't get it do you?

Just as an experiment, I looked at my daughters facebook page and saw some dialogue about the village hall. I put the name of the village hall into Google and I got the village where we live. I put her name (which is visible on her account) and the village into directory enquiries (I could just have used the phone book) and got her exact address.

The only reason that a complete stranger could not do this is because her settings limited access to friends - but not everyone has their account set up that way, and a complete stranger might request to be a friend.
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Rhiannon

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Re: Beautiful or outrageous?
« Reply #83 on: May 21, 2016, 04:24:33 PM »
LA, this isn't a child's FB page. It's an adult's.

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Beautiful or outrageous?
« Reply #84 on: May 21, 2016, 04:44:20 PM »
You just don't get it do you?

Just as an experiment, I looked at my daughters facebook page and saw some dialogue about the village hall. I put the name of the village hall into Google and I got the village where we live. I put her name (which is visible on her account) and the village into directory enquiries (I could just have used the phone book) and got her exact address.

Isn't it much easier to follow (discretely of course) a child home from school. Then you could get their exact address without all of that shenanigans?
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ippy

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Re: Beautiful or outrageous?
« Reply #85 on: May 21, 2016, 04:56:19 PM »
I don't see any problem with the photo referred to in the OP, it's a small child being cuddled a rather pleasant image.

ippy

L.A.

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Re: Beautiful or outrageous?
« Reply #86 on: May 21, 2016, 05:30:06 PM »
LA, this isn't a child's FB page. It's an adult's.

Who presumably lives at the same address?
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L.A.

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Re: Beautiful or outrageous?
« Reply #87 on: May 21, 2016, 05:34:03 PM »
Isn't it much easier to follow (discretely of course) a child home from school. Then you could get their exact address without all of that shenanigans?

I thought I had just demonstrated how easy it was to do that kind of thing online - if you pay 192.com £15 you can get a whole pile more of data on the person, the people they share a house with, credit history - you name it, you can buy it online.
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Shaker

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Re: Beautiful or outrageous?
« Reply #88 on: May 21, 2016, 06:20:29 PM »
I thought I had just demonstrated how easy it was to do that kind of thing online - if you pay 192.com £15 you can get a whole pile more of data on the person, the people they share a house with, credit history - you name it, you can buy it online.
So is it social media that's to blame (#75) or the World Wide Web generally?
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L.A.

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Re: Beautiful or outrageous?
« Reply #89 on: May 22, 2016, 03:46:05 AM »
So is it social media that's to blame (#75) or the World Wide Web generally?

The World Wide Web allows almost limitless possibilities. Social Media encourages people to put all manner of personal information into the public domain - generally not a good idea.
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jeremyp

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Re: Beautiful or outrageous?
« Reply #90 on: May 22, 2016, 04:01:55 AM »
What the the leveller of head amongst us are patiently trying to explain is that the fear of such things is ludicrously disproportionate to the actual risk

If you want to save children's lives, a concerted road safety campaign is probably the best way to go.

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I don't do social media either - I have no interest in it, being resolutely unsocial. But as much as it's a mystery to me, it means something to a hell of a lot of people and their activities shouldn't be and needn't be curtailed by grotesquely overinflated and irrational fears of random hordes of paedophiles wanking themselves into a subarachnoid haemorrhage because they've shared a harmless photo with their online friends of little Philip or Karen in the paddling pool.

If pedophiles do wank off over these photos on Facebook, it's pretty distasteful to think about it, but has anybody actually been harmed?

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There is a climate of this sort of feeble-wittedness across society in general these days with all manner of things and people need to stand up to it.
Quite. The media like to instil fear and panic because it sells. The government likes it because they can put in pretend measures to keep us quiet.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 09:50:30 AM by jeremyp »
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Shaker

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Re: Beautiful or outrageous?
« Reply #91 on: May 22, 2016, 08:31:44 AM »
Quite. The media like to install fear and panic because it sells. The government likes it because they can put in pretend measures to keep us quiet.
A chief example being the regular ratcheting up and lowering then raising of what we're told the alleged terror threat is, from moderate to severe to Jesus-Christ-we-don't-even-have-a-colour-for-how-fucking-serious-this-is-waaaaaaagh.
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The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Beautiful or outrageous?
« Reply #92 on: May 22, 2016, 10:11:10 AM »
I don't use it now, but I have done, so yes, I think I know how it works. And the idea that these could unwittingly provide clues for predatory paedophiles to track down children to their homes would be contemptible were it not so pitiable.

In actuality it's both.
My initial point was not about paedophiles but about over--sharing with the general public, as opposed to family, and identifying yourself and your child in the process, in an intimate and vulnerable moment in their life.

I also agree with Brownie about invading a child's privacy - there is a difference between seeing kids running around or doing stuff they would openly do in a public setting and taking a private moment and putting it out for public consumption with your name attached for no discernible reason other than you like to draw attention to yourself using whatever props available.

In relation to paedophiles - there is a lot of on-line grooming that starts of with innocent questions about innocuous things based on clues picked up from posts and pictures and once trust has been gained over a long period of time and many on-line chats the child is subtly manipulated to reveal more and more about themselves in order to gain influence and control  - "I see from your photo you like football, what team do you support?....oh same here....why don't we put our team shirts on and chat, I bet you look like <insert football hero here>in that shirt....Why don't you put the webcam on and show me....you look like you're really strong - you have wide shoulders for a kid your age...bet you can do lots of press ups...do you have a six pack...etc etc

Why would a paedophile waste their energy following a random kid home when contact on-line is easier, more subtle and a lot easier to gain the child's trust? The paedophile can pick and choose their target on-line from photos and there is a huge nationwide selection of kids compared to the handful of kids that show up to their local park - especially true  since kids seem to spend less time playing outside these days.  The paedophile would organise a meet-up only once they had groomed the child sufficiently and it would be at a time and place convenient for the paedophile.

Since there are so many photos shared on-line with millions of people every day there are so many opportunities for someone to catch a paedophile's attention and so much time plus zoom in technology to pore over photos and pick up information to use to groom someone, if you are clever, manipulative and that way inclined.
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Samuel

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Re: Beautiful or outrageous?
« Reply #93 on: May 23, 2016, 01:06:25 PM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-36322279

Personally I think it's very human and deeply touching. Not beautiful exactly, simply because the little boy in the picture is very poorly. I've done something similar with my kids when we've been covered together in their vomit.

I saw this too. I don't have a problem with it but it did occur to me that the reason people react badly to it is that you can't see the fathers face. I think that kind of renders the adult in the picture 'unknown', making it easier for a viewer to project their own assumptions and prejudices onto the photograph. If the mother is a professional photographer I wouldn't be surprised if she did that on purpose. Its has certainly provoked discussion.
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