Vengeance is mine saith the LORD, and I shall pay back in full...

[Gonnagle]

Dear Stranger,

I will give you a clue, I am a follower of Christ

Gonnagle.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Yo Gonners,

Oh for the Love of...................! I know where you and Berational are coming from, simple fact is God said nothing about keeping slaves, slavery is man made, but then you ask, why did God not step in!! he has ( he for a given he ) but we don't listen, it is all there but we keep on with our greed, pride, ego, but one day we all will have to listen, it is all over this forum, from atheists, Muslims, Christians and all other points of the compass, we need to learn to live together in peace...

I'm all for living in peace, believe me. The point though is that some would posit a morally good "God" who set down some rules in a book for how we should behave. Some of those rules concern not whether keeping slaves was a bad idea, but rather how they should be kept. Not sure how you think that promotes harmonious co-existence if you happen to be one of those slaves, but either way qualitatively I really don't see the difference between that and saying "give them a sweet afterwards" rather than addressing the real issue of child abuse being wrong to start with. If you really are a moral god concerned to set down some rules, surely you'd start with the basic rights and wrong wouldn't you rather than focus on the peripherals?

...but if we keep on thinking we know better than God, then our children's children will be cursing our generation, asking how the frack did we get in this mess.

That's called the reification fallacy - you can't think you know "better than God" when you've been given no reason to think there to be this God in the first place. Rather this conversation concerns the contradictions and inconsistencies in the narratives of those who would claim "God".

Oh and by the way, I am not asking you to start worshipping God, just heed his words, which are universal, Love your Neighbour as Yourself.

Again, you assume this "He" and that "His" words have been recorded anywhere. Like almost everyone else though, I'm inherently altruistic and so my default is to treat others as well as I'm able in any case.

Now go in peace brother and sin no more, sorry you don't believe in sin, well just be a very nice person, which I am sure you are, give Vlad a big sloppy kiss and tell him you Love him

No, I don't believe in "sin" in the religious sense - and nor in reality do you I suspect, not least because all that murdering of your neighbours for gathering kindling on the sabbath and such like would be too exhausting for you.

I'd be happy to throw Trollboy as many kisses as you'd like by the way, only he'd only reply with a, "so you think chucking bricks at me is ok now do you?" type straw man. 'twas ever thus.

[Stranger]

I will give you a clue, I am a follower of Christ

But how do you know what he said or says?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Yo Gonners,

I'm all for living in peace, believe me. The point though is that some would posit a morally good "God" who set down some rules in a book for how we should behave. Some of those rules concern not whether keeping slaves was a bad idea, but rather how they should be kept. Not sure how you think that promotes harmonious co-existence if you happen to be one of those slaves, but either way qualitatively I really don't see the difference between that and saying "give them a sweet afterwards" rather than addressing the real issue of child abuse being wrong to start with. If you really are a moral god concerned to set down some rules, surely you'd start with the basic rights and wrong wouldn't you rather than focus on the peripherals?
 

That's called the reification fallacy - you can't think you know "better than God" when you've been given no reason to think there to be this God in the first place. Rather this conversation concerns the contradictions and inconsistencies in the narratives of those who would claim "God".

Again, you assume this "He" and that "His" words have been recorded anywhere. Like almost everyone else though, I'm inherently altruistic and so my default is to treat others as well as I'm able in any case.

No, I don't believe in "sin" in the religious sense - and nor in reality do you I suspect, not least because all that murdering of your neighbours for gathering kindling on the sabbath and such like would be too exhausting for you.

I'd be happy to throw Trollboy as many kisses as you'd like by the way, only he'd only reply with a, "so you think chucking bricks at me is ok now do you?" type straw man. 'twas ever thus.

Vintage Johnny Speight.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

But how do you know what he said or says?

illumination by the holy spirit.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Stranger,

How do I know, it all rings true for me, the more I read, the more I learn, it all comes winging its way back to Christ, now you can accuse me of cherry picking, it could be my confirmation bias, sue me, it is true for me ( me ).

Oh and it works, you just have to practice, practice until it becomes second nature, I am still practising, one day I love my neighbour, the next I am thinking, wanker, I will take the bins out next week.

Gonnagle.

[Stranger]

How do I know, it all rings true for me, the more I read, the more I learn, it all comes winging its way back to Christ, now you can accuse me of cherry picking, it could be my confirmation bias, sue me, it is true for me ( me ).

It sounds like calling what you think is right "Christ". Probably because some of what he is reported to have said chimes with modern notions of "good"...

Oh and it works, you just have to practice, practice until it becomes second nature, I am still practising, one day I love my neighbour, the next I am thinking, wanker, I will take the bins out next week.

What do you mean by "it works"? If it "works", why don't Christians agree?

[bluehillside Retd.]

illumination by the holy spirit.

The odd thing about those who think themselves to have been so "illuminated" is that the Jesus/Melanesian Tree Frog god/whatever they think did it didn't also think it worth providing them with a logically consistent argument to distinguish their claims from just guessing.

Jesus: "I hereby illuminate you."

Miserable wretch: "Thank you Big Guy. How should I tell others of this wondrous event?"

Jesus: "Here's a list of logically hopeless arguments. Try those."

Miserable wretch: "But won't people think I'm a bit dim, and almost certainly wrong if I do that?"

Jesus: "Listen pal, we all have our crosses to bear..."

[Walt Zingmatilder]

An encounter with God in Christ is often the ultimate on knowing how wrong you can be and I know Gonnagle has related his experience on this forum.

Therefore the suggestion that Christ is what you think is right is of the mark particularly when we know what you think being right entails.

[bluehillside Retd.]

"An strongly held belief that you've had an encounter with God in Christ is often the ultimate on telling yourself that you're knowing how wrong you can be and I know Gonnagle has related his experience on this forum."

Just fixed that for Trollboy.

Therefore the suggestion that Christ is what you think is right is of the mark particularly when we know what you think being right entails.

Ah, the unwarranted "therefore" after the false premise schtick again. Always a welcome return visitor around these parts.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

The odd thing about those who think themselves to have been so "illuminated" is that the Jesus/Melanesian Tree Frog god/whatever they think did it didn't also think it worth providing them with a logically consistent argument to distinguish their claims from just guessing.

Jesus: "I hereby illuminate you."

Miserable wretch: "Thank you Big Guy. How should I tell others of this wondrous event?"

Jesus: "Here's a list of logically hopeless arguments. Try those."

Miserable wretch: "But won't people think I'm a bit dim, and almost certainly wrong if I do that?"

Jesus: "Listen pal, we all have our crosses to bear..."

At least when Jesus says he is going to illuminate people a light goes on.
When you appear not only does the lighting go off the heating goes off as well.

[Shaker]

At least when Jesus says he is going to illuminate people a light goes on.

What a pity that for so many it appears to be a 5W bulb.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

What a pity that for so many it appears to be a 5W bulb.

No.....That's the bulb which comes on just over your head whenever you have an idea.

[Shaker]

Very poor.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Shakes,

What a pity that for so many it appears to be a 5W bulb.

And that it's made of unicorn tears, filled with Scotch mist and powered by pixies on a treadmill - which presumably why the Trollboys of this world resort to insult when their assertions are so readily undone.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Very poor.

I thought it was funny which at the end of the day is what counts.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

The odd thing about those who think themselves to have been so "illuminated" is...............

They realised they had been wrong about many things....................

I'm not sure you have that capacity and if you do do you have the capacity to own up given the commitments you have made to certain declarations?

[Gonnagle]

Dear Stranger,

What do you mean by "it works"? If it "works", why don't Christians agree?

Christians don't agree because of Churchianity, they don't listen to their inner voice they listen to their Church, and it works simply by walking the walk, first try and then find God, Karen Armstrong brought that brilliantly home to me, she talks of following the message first and then you will find God, in another of her books she talked about a pupil of Confucius or Buddha who asked, how do I find God, he was told, never mind finding God go and find yourself first.

Gonnagle.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Shakes,

And that it's made of unicorn tears, filled with Scotch mist and powered by pixies on a treadmill -

What...................... you mean like moral relativism?

[bluehillside Retd.]

What...................... you mean like moral relativism?

In which we see Trollboy crash and burn where the topic was discussed, then pop up elsewhere to repeat his mistake as if nothing had happened.

Contemptible, but not unexpected.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

In which we see Trollboy crash and burn where the topic was discussed, then pop up elsewhere to repeat his mistake as if nothing had happened.

Contemptible, but not unexpected.

Crashed and burnt Hillside?........who shot me down?..................Von Richthovens ghost?

My recollection was that I withdrew that evening of my own accord because you were overheating and about to attack the axminster.

[Stranger]

My recollection was that I withdrew that evening of my own accord because you were overheating and about to attack the axminster.

Your arguments consisted of nothing but appeal to consequences and a false dichotomy - you appeared to just give up...

[Stranger]

Christians don't agree because of Churchianity, they don't listen to their inner voice they listen to their Church, and it works simply by walking the walk, first try and then find God, Karen Armstrong brought that brilliantly home to me, she talks of following the message first and then you will find God, in another of her books she talked about a pupil of Confucius or Buddha who asked, how do I find God, he was told, never mind finding God go and find yourself first.

Still sounds like calling your own conscience "god", for no readily apparent reason....

[Brownie]

Dear Stranger,

Christians don't agree because of Churchianity, they don't listen to their inner voice they listen to their Church, and it works simply by walking the walk, first try and then find God, Karen Armstrong brought that brilliantly home to me, she talks of following the message first and then you will find God, in another of her books she talked about a pupil of Confucius or Buddha who asked, how do I find God, he was told, never mind finding God go and find yourself first.

Gonnagle.

Too right!

[Gonnagle]

Dear Stranger,

No argument from me, what is God?? Your conscience, the air we breathe, water, a neuron sparking away inside our tiny minds, it's all God, God is no-thing, Wigs is crazy, God is everything and more.

Dear Brownie,

Too right!

We should start our own Church, but we need a good schism, not a proper Church until we have had a damn good schism

Gonnagle.