Christians outnumbered by people with no religion, report by senior lecturer

[Owlswing]

Almost half of the population of England and Wales identifies itself as having no religion, outweighing the number of people who say they are Christian, research found.

In 2014, 48.5% of those asked referred to themselves as having no religion, compared to the 25% that fell into the "none" category in the 2011 census.

Those who defined themselves as Christian - Anglicans, Catholics and other denominations - made up 43.8% of the population, the Guardian reports.

The proportion of the population describing themselves as Anglican plunged from 44.5% in 1983 to 19% in 2014. Catholics made up 8.3%, other Christians 15.7% and non-Christian religions 7.7%.

http://www.itv.com/news/2016-05-24/no-religion-outweighs-christian-in-uk-population/

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Almost half of the population of England and Wales identifies itself as having no religion, outweighing the number of people who say they are Christian, research found.

In 2014, 48.5% of those asked referred to themselves as having no religion, compared to the 25% that fell into the "none" category in the 2011 census.

Those who defined themselves as Christian - Anglicans, Catholics and other denominations - made up 43.8% of the population, the Guardian reports.

The proportion of the population describing themselves as Anglican plunged from 44.5% in 1983 to 19% in 2014. Catholics made up 8.3%, other Christians 15.7% and non-Christian religions 7.7%.

http://www.itv.com/news/2016-05-24/no-religion-outweighs-christian-in-uk-population/

Moderator: quote amended in line with change to this OP

Argumentum ad populum

[Shaker]

Did you really have to quote an entire post of that length just to stick on the end three words that you got facepalmingly wrong anyway?

[Gordon]

Almost half of the population of England and Wales identifies itself as having no religion, outweighing the number of people who say they are Christian, research found.

In 2014, 48.5% of those asked referred to themselves as having no religion, compared to the 25% that fell into the "none" category in the 2011 census.

I posted this link in another thread recently but it is relevant here too. This recent study shows that more than half of people in Scotland (52%) now say they have no religion compared with 40% in 1999.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35953639

[Owlswing]

I posted this link in another thread recently but it is relevant here too. This recent study shows that more than half of people in Scotland (52%) now say they have no religion compared with 40% in 1999.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35953639

Yeah but most of them have the religious belief of the thirst after righteousness - a thirst for a good single malt! I always said that thhe Scots knew how to do religion properly!

[Gordon]

Yeah but most of them have the religious belief of the thirst after righteousness

Gonnagle certainly does and he has the T-shirt to prove it: not joking either, since NS and I have actually seen said T-shirt.

I always said that thhe Scots knew how to do religion properly!

We know how to do everything properly 

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

Argumentum ad populum

Why?

[Owlswing]

Why?

Because various posters have said it about his posts so he thought it would be clever to use it himself for a change.

[Shaker]

Why?

It isn't, of course; as Owly has said, it's just a term he's heard used but doesn't quite understand what it means.

[Hope]

Why?

Largely because other posters have used hat argument to dismiss other claims here (both religious and otherwise) that they don't like the sound of.

The problem with the premise of the opening post is that we know that British statistics on religious belief only really started in the inter-war years, perhaps even (seriously) post-1945, and we have no real knowledge of the base figures prior to that.  Yes, many, perhaps even most, attended church/chapel, but then even the Churches' own figures are based on occasional attendance (the CoE counts attendance as Christmas/Easter and a couple of other times in the year).  Our Baptist church has a regular attendance of around 400 of a Sunday (split between the morning and evening), but no-one believes that all those 400 attendees are believers.  I alone can name a dozen who have come to 'investigate' what Christianity is all about, and the pastor can, and has previously counted 100 and more such folk on a Sunday (and only some of these are the 'undecided' children of Christian parents).  Furthermore, even those who have called it a day and rejected Christianity continue to live within a society where the culture is heavily influenced by Christian thinking - in law, for instance.  Ironically, some of the newer laws relating to gender equality are probably closer to Jesus' teaching on the matter than British law has been for centuries.

[Owlswing]

Largely because other posters have used hat argument to dismiss other claims here (both religious and otherwise) that they don't like the sound of.

The problem with the premise of the opening post is that we know that British statistics on religious belief only really started in the inter-war years, perhaps even (seriously) post-1945, and we have no real knowledge of the base figures prior to that.  Yes, many, perhaps even most, attended church/chapel, but then even the Churches' own figures are based on occasional attendance (the CoE counts attendance as Christmas/Easter and a couple of other times in the year).  Our Baptist church has a regular attendance of around 400 of a Sunday (split between the morning and evening), but no-one believes that all those 400 attendees are believers.  I alone can name a dozen who have come to 'investigate' what Christianity is all about, and the pastor can, and has previously counted 100 and more such folk on a Sunday (and only some of these are the 'undecided' children of Christian parents).  Furthermore, even those who have called it a day and rejected Christianity continue to live within a society where the culture is heavily influenced by Christian thinking - in law, for instance.  Ironically, some of the newer laws relating to gender equality are probably closer to Jesus' teaching on the matter than British law has been for centuries.

These figures come from the 2011 census - try another squirm-out as this one doesn't work!

[jeremyp]

Largely because other posters have used hat argument to dismiss other claims here (both religious and otherwise) that they don't like the sound of.

What claim is being dismissed in the OP?

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

Largely because other posters have used hat argument to dismiss other claims here (both religious and otherwise) that they don't like the sound of.

but why is it an argumentum ad populum?

[Gordon]

The problem with the premise of the opening post is that we know that British statistics on religious belief only really started in the inter-war years, perhaps even (seriously) post-1945, and we have no real knowledge of the base figures prior to that.

Which is an irrelevant point; that there may be no information regarding the situation 70+ years ago doesn't invalidate more recent studies that show clear evidence for the decline of religious affiliation between more recent dates - such as the one I mentioned in post #3, which shows that more than half of people in Scotland (52%) now say they have no religion compared with 40% in 1999.
 

Our Baptist church has a regular attendance of around 400 of a Sunday (split between the morning and evening), but no-one believes that all those 400 attendees are believers.  I alone can name a dozen who have come to 'investigate' what Christianity is all about, and the pastor can, and has previously counted 100 and more such folk on a Sunday (and only some of these are the 'undecided' children of Christian parents).

This may be your local impression but it is anecdotal and says nothing about religious affiliation generally, especially since it is a self-selecting sample of those involved with your particular church.
 

Furthermore, even those who have called it a day and rejected Christianity continue to live within a society where the culture is heavily influenced by Christian thinking - in law, for instance.

The UK does have a history of organised religion being major social/cultural influence historically, especially given the role of of the CofE over the centuries - the point is though that this is in terminal decline now as religious affiliation drops and as the legislature is far less constrained by religious influences - I'd have thought that would be obvious in the welcome changes surrounding homosexual people.       

Ironically, some of the newer laws relating to gender equality are probably closer to Jesus' teaching on the matter than British law has been for centuries.

This is just an example of the grandiose thinking of the Christian apologist, and is quite laughable when contrasted with the homophobia of some Christians - but thankfully not all Christians.   

[Stranger]

Largely because other posters have used hat argument to dismiss other claims here (both religious and otherwise) that they don't like the sound of.

 

Once again proving that you don't understand logic.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

but why is it an argumentum ad populum?

Because of its context and providence.The poster is using it in a campaign to demonstrate the wrongness of Christianity and the improved mental capabilities of those who reject it. Unless I'm much mistaken.

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

Because of its context and providence.

Context: This is a Religion and Ethics forum. Seems appropriate to me.

Providence: From the link in the OP:  "Stephen Bullivant, senior lecturer in theology and ethics at St Mary's Catholic University in Twickenham, told the newspaper there was a "clear sense of the growth of 'no religion' as a proportion of the population"."

The poster is using it in a campaign to demonstrate the wrongness of Christianity and the improved mental capabilities of those who reject it.

If these points were made in the OP you would have a point. As they are not you don't.

Unless I'm much mistaken.

Oh well, never mind.

[Shaker]

Because of its context and providence.The poster is using it in a campaign to demonstrate the wrongness of Christianity and the improved mental capabilities of those who reject it. Unless I'm much mistaken.

You're very much mistaken, but eh, what's new.

The context is that it's a factual news story about religion on a religion and ethics forum.

I don't know what on earth you mean by 'providence'; perhaps you meant provenance. In which case, it comes from itv.com, who I believe are known to report news stories from time to time.

These head-desk howlers aside, your most egregious error of course is thinking that the posting of a factual news story equals an argument of some kind instead of the provision of information, hence your absurd invocation of the argumentum ad populum fallacy even though it's absolutely nothing of the kind.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

Almost half of the population of England and Wales identifies itself as having no religion, outweighing the number of people who say they are Christian, research found.

In 2014, 48.5% of those asked referred to themselves as having no religion, compared to the 25% that fell into the "none" category in the 2011 census.

Those who defined themselves as Christian - Anglicans, Catholics and other denominations - made up 43.8% of the population, the Guardian reports.

The proportion of the population describing themselves as Anglican plunged from 44.5% in 1983 to 19% in 2014. Catholics made up 8.3%, other Christians 15.7% and non-Christian religions 7.7%.

http://www.itv.com/news/2016-05-24/no-religion-outweighs-christian-in-uk-population/

So the Anglican church is declining in numbers? So what?

[Rhiannon]

As it's the established church with s presence in the HoL that is important, Humph. And Catholicism has the numbers that it does thanks to people moving into the country, particularly from Poland and elsewhere in Eastern Europe. How long that stats the case remains to be seen.

[Shaker]

So the Anglican church is declining in numbers? So what?

The C of E is still (inexplicably) the established state church, so this colossal (and remarkably rapid) slump in religious allegiance is newsworthy.

It already makes it impossible for anybody to argue seriously, as a few try to, that England is still a Christian country*, invariably as a prelude to demanding to receive or retain some special privilege for Christianity generally and (sometimes) the C of E specifically - exemption from anti-discrimination laws that everyone else has to abide by, for example, or the provision of certain services such as marriage to same sex couples; in a wider context it will make it all the harder for the C of E to try to cling on to its privileged position, thus easing the way ultimately toward disestablishment (something that the churches in Scotland and Wales managed without fuss or fanfare many years ago).

* When referring to 'a Christian country' people generally mean (and usually say) Britain, but Britain refers collectively to three separate nations only one of which has an established church.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

As it's the established church with s presence in the HoL that is important, Humph. And Catholicism has the numbers that it does thanks to people moving into the country, particularly from Poland and elsewhere in Eastern Europe. How long that stats the case remains to be seen.

Eastern Europe tends to be Orthodox, the RCC influx is more from Latin America

[Rhiannon]

Eastern Europe tends to be Orthodox, the RCC influx is more from Latin America

We don't have mass migration from Latin America. The media have reported that Poles in particular have boosted RCC numbers.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Owlswing,

Yes it is very interesting, for me it ask the question, why?

Complacency within the Church.

Has something replaced religion.

The Church is no longer at the heart of a community.

The various atheist organisations are now making their presence felt.

The Church is outdated.

Pagan religions are on the rise.

Bad press ( deservedly ) over the past decade.

Sunday's are no longer sacred, as in families can find so much more to do on a Sunday morning.

A combination of all the above.

Gonnagle.

[BeRational]

Dear Owlswing,

Yes it is very interesting, for me it ask the question, why?

Complacency within the Church.

Has something replaced religion.

The Church is no longer at the heart of a community.

The various atheist organisations are now making their presence felt.

The Church is outdated.

Pagan religions are on the rise.

Bad press ( deservedly ) over the past decade.

Sunday's are no longer sacred, as in families can find so much more to do on a Sunday morning.

A combination of all the above.

Gonnagle.

Another option of course is that people recognize that religions have not met their burden of proof, so can be discounted as probably not true.

People are more educated these days, and fantastic claims tend to be questioned more, and when they are, they are found wanting.