No religion without value... in the words of an atheist...

[Sassy]

I believe it isn't the religion but the founder God who is not without value.
But the truth is any value is strictly to do with the individual person with or without faith.

I find atheist never venture beyond the book cover and the vital point of who God is and who Christ is in Christianity.

Love is the main message and if we followed God and his Son Jesus Christ. The world would be a better place.
Because even when we fail ourselves or others, we know we can stand up and be forgiven and carry on renewed and with the determination to be better for all.

Our lives at present are more about self than others. How we treat others in real life says more about who we are and our reasons for treating them so.

I think people have their value with or without religion. But it will take some time for others to catch up.

[trippymonkey]

Sorry S but these kinds of posts make me think that God is God but mankind has made up its own 'gods' to satisfy personal needs & problem solving - mostly made up by ourselves ANYWAY !!!!

Nick

[Sassy]

Sorry S but these kinds of posts make me think that God is God but mankind has made up its own 'gods' to satisfy personal needs & problem solving - mostly made up by ourselves ANYWAY !!!!

Nick

So Jesus Christ.. what about him?

[BeRational]

So Jesus Christ.. what about him?

What about him?

Did he even exist?

Who knows?

[floo]

There is no point in having a religion if it doesn't make you a better person. The extremists of any religion, including Christianity, are ghastly people who make a mockery the religions they espouse.

[Harrowby Hall]

Love is the main message and if we followed God and his Son Jesus Christ. The world would be a better place.
Because even when we fail ourselves or others, we know we can stand up and be forgiven and carry on renewed and with the determination to be better for all.

So, what you are saying here is that if you are a member of the club you can do whatever you like and you still get a free pass. It is being a member that is important not how you behave.

[floo]

So, what you are saying here is that if you are a member of the club you can do whatever you like and you still get a free pass. It is being a member that is important not how you behave.

That would seem to be the case for some!

[Brownie]

So, what you are saying here is that if you are a member of the club you can do whatever you like and you still get a free pass. It is being a member that is important not how you behave.

It isn't like that Harrowby, we can never be complacent because God may well judge us more severely than non-believers.  He will judge us all and if we have done wrong in the rather smug knowledge that we'll be forgiven if we're sorry, that in itself is a sin.

Of course we will fall down and we do know that if we genuinely try to make amends and are sorry, we'll be forgiven, which is not the same as what I said above.  We cannot be arrogant.  Non-believers will also be sorry for wrongdoing and God will take that into account.

[trippymonkey]

But how do you know you really ARE trying to make amends because it's the 'right thing to do' or that we subconciously 'know' we'll be OK in the end ??

Kind of like inside fooling ourselves ??

[Jack Knave]

It isn't like that Harrowby, we can never be complacent because God may well judge us more severely than non-believers.  He will judge us all and if we have done wrong in the rather smug knowledge that we'll be forgiven if we're sorry, that in itself is a sin.

Of course we will fall down and we do know that if we genuinely try to make amends and are sorry, we'll be forgiven, which is not the same as what I said above.  We cannot be arrogant.  Non-believers will also be sorry for wrongdoing and God will take that into account.

So that negates everything that is said about Christ and the cross, that he took on the sins of the world. In the end it is good works, according to your account....?

[Jack Knave]

But how do you know you really ARE trying to make amends because it's the 'right thing to do' or that we subconciously 'know' we'll be OK in the end ??

Kind of like inside fooling ourselves ??

That's right people only come out with an apology when they get caught which often means it is faked. So how would God tell them that they are faking it and not forgiven, because most of the time this act of apology is given to another human being who can be easily fooled by good acting; some time unconsciously done.

[splashscuba]

I find atheist never venture beyond the book cover and the vital point of who God is and who Christ is in Christianity.

These days I don't get to the book cover I'm afraid. It's a poor read for me.

I don't need a book written in an age long gone to understand the values and principles to aspire to.

[floo]

These days I don't get to the book cover I'm afraid. It's a poor read for me.

I don't need a book written in an age long gone to understand the values and principles to aspire to.

Especially when there are things in the Bible, which no decent person would dream of doing!

[Sassy]

What about him?

Did he even exist?

Who knows?

You and I, both know he existed. What I don't understand is the evasion of the question with such an answer???
It proves to me that you either avoid thinking about his life and what he did or have never looked at him closely.

[Sassy]

So, what you are saying here is that if you are a member of the club you can do whatever you like and you still get a free pass. It is being a member that is important not how you behave.

Would that be the way of LOVE?

So you ignore the important part and central message of the post...

Quote from: Sassy on May 25, 2016, 08:45:32 AMLove is the main message and if we followed God and his Son Jesus Christ. The world would be a better place.
Because even when we fail ourselves or others, we know we can stand up and be forgiven and carry on renewed and with the determination to be better for all.

There would be no wrong doing and if all in Christ by the power of the Spirit they would not want to do wrong.
So how do you arrive at the

if you are a member of the club you can do whatever you like

and how do you explain that in the message of love and following God and his Son Jesus Christ?

You see Christ never sinned or sinned against another. His life was one of service where he healed the sick, fed the hungry, cured the lame and made the blind to see. For which of those do you feel would be wrong to do as we like in THE club of God and Christ?

You cannot twist something said to suit your own mind set. My post was clear and if we can do as we like in the way of love Gods way and that way of Christ... Then of course a free pass to do those things is alright.

Now stop trying to change things to suit your own motives. As you see it doesn't work it is your wrong thinking which is your worst downfall and why you never get high enough to see the good way.

[Sassy]

But how do you know you really ARE trying to make amends because it's the 'right thing to do' or that we subconciously 'know' we'll be OK in the end ??

Kind of like inside fooling ourselves ??

Because if you were so cold hearted and minded then you would not be bothered about love, God or Christ in the first instance.

It takes a person with a conscience to be bothered about doing wrong.
There is a difference between doing something wrong and fear of getting caught as opposed to doing wrong and feeling bad that you have done it.
There is no wild card of repenting just in case there is a God and you might go to hell.

God changes us in the Spirit and all who walk according to Gods way will live.

That means Christians do no harm to others...

[trippymonkey]

Know Jesus existed ?!!?!?
Come on !!! Even Christians can't agree on anything about Jesus.
A book, or more importantly a COLLECTION of books written by all sorts, is no more proof than Lord Of The Rings is of a fairy land !?!?

Nick

[Sassy]

Know Jesus existed ?!!?!?
Come on !!! Even Christians can't agree on anything about Jesus.

Utter Rubbish...

Christians agree he is the Son of God.
Christians agree he was crucified for their sins and rose again from the dead.
Christians agree Christ will return...

Guess you never really think about what you write. Even dumb dumbs can get that right.
All Christians believe Christ is the Messiah, hence there would not be Christians and they are really Jews grafted into the
tree. (Do not expect you to understand that last part)

A book, or more importantly a COLLECTION of books written by all sorts, is no more proof than Lord Of The Rings is of a fairy land !?!?

Nick

Ignorance in motion having never read the book you believe you can compare fiction with fact?

Silly person. Even sillier writing what you just wrote above.

[trippymonkey]

Silly woman I HAVE read this book(s) !!!

Wonder what else YOU'VE never read You call from only one doorway but some of us aren't that narrow-minded.
This is why you call everyone else dumb !?!?!? LOL

Are you saying that the Bible was written in ONE session ?!?!? HA HA HA

[Sassy]

Silly woman I HAVE read this book(s) !!!

So how come your post did not reflect this claim?
You said:

Trippymonkey

 Know Jesus existed ?!!?!?
Come on !!! Even Christians can't agree on anything about Jesus.

I replied:

Utter Rubbish...

Christians agree he is the Son of God.
Christians agree he was crucified for their sins and rose again from the dead.
Christians agree Christ will return...

Guess you never really think about what you write. Even dumb dumbs can get that right.
All Christians believe Christ is the Messiah, hence there would not be Christians and they are really Jews grafted into the
tree. (Do not expect you to understand that last part)

First paragraph proved you to be wrong. Christians do agree on things about Jesus.
Is that what you believe you can call me a Silly woman for? When in fact it appears you have never read any books?

Wonder what else YOU'VE never read You call from only one doorway but some of us aren't that narrow-minded.
This is why you call everyone else dumb !?!?!? LOL
Are you saying that the Bible was written in ONE session ?!?!? HA HA HA

Seems you think you can hide your claim with subterfuge and ignorance.

The truth is that had you read the book and knew what Christians believe from the book, even the basics...
You would know that they all have to believe Christ is who he says he is.
Whilst the bible is compilation of many books, the central truth and theme within those books are the Words of God given to mankind through the Holy Spirit. For someone who claims to have read the bible you have no idea about the content.

I am not mean minded but I did speak honestly and openly about your post. I also have shown why your post is incorrect.
Wouldn't it have been more honest and shrewd of you to just admit you got it wrong?

[floo]

Sass you keep making assertions, but when challenged you can't substantiate them with any verifiable evidence.

[Brownie]

But how do you know you really ARE trying to make amends because it's the 'right thing to do' or that we subconciously 'know' we'll be OK in the end ??

Kind of like inside fooling ourselves ??

That's a very good point tripster but it would be extremely arrogant to claim we 'know' we will be OK in the end. 

Floo said:There is no point in having a religion if it doesn't make you a better person.

I was thinking about that one and wonder what we would think if we knew religious people before they had 'got' religion.

[floo]

That's a very good point tripster but it would be extremely arrogant to claim we 'know' we will be OK in the end. 

Floo said:There is no point in having a religion if it doesn't make you a better person.

I was thinking about that one and wonder what we would think if we knew religious people before they had 'got' religion.

I know a person who was fine before they did the 'saved' bit, sadly thereafter they have been very unpleasant.

[Aruntraveller]

I know a person who was fine before they did the 'saved' bit, sadly thereafter they have been very unpleasant.

Yes but was it the 'saved' bit that changed them or was there something else going on.  Correaltion and cause - always damned tricky.

[floo]

Yes but was it the 'saved' bit that changed them or was there something else going on.  Correaltion and cause - always damned tricky.

It would appear it was definitely the religion that changed them, they didn't threaten folk with hell-fire until they converted!