Author Topic: Odd laws  (Read 8052 times)

L.A.

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Re: Odd laws
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2016, 11:23:29 AM »
... or, indeed, anybody.

But the old and vulnerable are by far the easiest targets.
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Shaker

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Re: Odd laws
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2016, 11:24:02 AM »
Yes, true.
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Gonnagle

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Re: Odd laws
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2016, 11:25:49 AM »
Dear Rhiannon,

Quote
Well if you want to be cynical you could look at it as a way of forcing the funding the charities that pick up the slack from government cuts.

Mr Cynical here!! I think something is going on, why is there a Ronald McDonald hospice attached to NHS hospitals, why does the NHS have its own lottery.

Tories are better than Houdini, they are doing it right in front of us, NHS! nevermind the NHS! what about the Referendum, my milk went off in the fridge yesterday, bloody Tories >:(

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Re: Odd laws
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2016, 11:29:49 AM »
I suppose that the extra funds will allow them to build their telemarketing teams to hound the old and vulnerable.

This is how Tesco distributes its grants and I don't see what's not to like.

http://www.tesco.com/carrier-bags/

Except it all feels like it's going to the kinds of things that used to be funded by local or national government.

SqueakyVoice

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Re: Odd laws
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2016, 11:41:58 AM »
And the notion behind all this - that fewer plastic carrier bags is helpful to the environment - is, given the untold tons of pollution pumped into the world every single day by countries such as China, laughable.
And why are you going on about me killing your mum while Hitler is still alive..?  ::)
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L.A.

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Re: Odd laws
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2016, 11:42:21 AM »
As an exercise, I have just weighed one of the 5p bags I recently bought - it was 30 grams - an old free bag weighs 5 grams.

Therefore, unless you use your 5p bag six times or more before throwing it away - you are sending more plastic to landfill than you were before this stupid law came in.
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Gonnagle

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Re: Odd laws
« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2016, 11:49:13 AM »
Dear Rhiannon,

Quote
Except it all feels like it's going to the kinds of things that used to be funded by local or national government.

Yes, it don't sit right.

http://www.tesco.com/carrier-bags/


Quote
Proceeds generated from the charge, excluding VAT and reasonable costs, will be donated to local projects through our Bags of Help community grant scheme. We will be working Groundwork, an expert organisation, to help us do this.
In England, Scotland and Wales the proceeds generated from the sale of the bags will go to good causes, as set out by DEFRA (Department for Environment Food & Rural Affairs).
In Northern Ireland the proceeds of the 5p levy are paid to the Department of the Environment (DOE). The money raised is used to deliver local projects to improve the environment.

VAT and reasonable costs, so not all of the 5p goes to charity and government bodies are involved, those Tories are good, wonder if they have a lifetime membership to the magic circle.

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Rhiannon

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Re: Odd laws
« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2016, 11:50:19 AM »
Exactly, Gonners. Smoke and mirrors.

jeremyp

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Re: Odd laws
« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2016, 03:03:02 PM »
Because it's an unnecessary, and I would argue counter-productive,

How is it counterproductive?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2016, 03:59:24 PM by jeremyp »
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SqueakyVoice

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Re: Odd laws
« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2016, 03:30:51 PM »
How is it counterproductive?
Because after 6 months, carrier bag consumption had fallen by 75-80% (depending on the supermarket in question).

This would suggest that the production of carrier bags would fall by a similar percentage. So carrier bag manufacturing has counterproduced by 75% (approx).
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jeremyp

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Re: Odd laws
« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2016, 04:01:50 PM »
Because after 6 months, carrier bag consumption had fallen by 75-80% (depending on the supermarket in question).

This would suggest that the production of carrier bags would fall by a similar percentage. So carrier bag manufacturing has counterproduced by 75% (approx).
I'm sorry, I don't understand. The whole point is to reduce the amount of carrier bags being produced and it's working.
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SqueakyVoice

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Re: Odd laws
« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2016, 07:48:37 PM »
I'm sorry, I don't understand. The whole point is to reduce the amount of carrier bags being produced and it's working.
Yeah. It was a sort of joke based on the idea that a fall in production could be described as a 'counterproduction'.

Well.

It amused me.
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L.A.

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Re: Odd laws
« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2016, 09:30:32 PM »
How is it counterproductive?

See #30
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Hope

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Re: Odd laws
« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2016, 09:47:19 PM »
I'm sure lots of us do that when the weather is bad, maybe we don't have quite so much room  :D, but the idea of everything being dried in a tumble drier, wet from the washing machine, is very eco unfriendly.
We have never had, let alone used a tumble-dryer.  Even in the dead of winter, we will often put our washing on the line outside, even if only to allow the wind to get rid of some of water.  Came home from work some years back to find all the clothes had frozen rigid!!
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Hope

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Re: Odd laws
« Reply #39 on: June 01, 2016, 09:55:15 PM »
I was sceptical about that one, but, on the whole, it seems to be working out fine.
Ironically, when the law was brought in here in Wales, the use of plastic bags went UP for about 3 years in our village - because the half-dozen shops all agreed to donate the 5p they charged to the local Voluntary Concern group, which runs weekly shopping trips and other transport provision, a befriending service, a community club and a good neighbour scheme - all for the elderly, disabled and otherwise disadvantaged in the community.  It seems to have levelled back off now, perhaps dropping below the original numbers within the last year or so.
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Hope

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Re: Odd laws
« Reply #40 on: June 01, 2016, 10:00:17 PM »
Not for me it isn't, for much the same reasons that L. A. has just mentioned. The bin in my kitchen is one of that kind that attaches to the inside of a cupboard door, a plastic frame over which you hook the handles of a carrier bag so that the bag itself forms the bin. That's as good as useless now.

And the notion behind all this - that fewer plastic carrier bags is helpful to the environment - is, given the untold tons of pollution pumped into the world every single day by countries such as China, laughable.
We have the same type of kitchen bin, Shakes, and we don't find this a problem.  There are so many different types of lightweight plastic bags nowadays that my wife never seems to be without a handful, and we have never paid for them since the system was introduced.  As for L.A.'s comment about not planning, I simply have 2 or three 'for life' plastic bags, or increasingly material bags in my day-pack/briefcase/car glove compartment/boot/bike panniers/coat pockets so that they are available whenever.  It isn't a case of 'planning', just common sense.  Mind you, I suppose the fact that I have done this for 30 or 40 years anyway means that I haven't had to drastically change my habits.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2016, 10:05:50 PM by Hope »
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Hope

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Re: Odd laws
« Reply #41 on: June 01, 2016, 10:03:28 PM »
Why should we have to?
Why should our wildlife have to put up with the mess and danger that such items create?  Similarly, why should future generations be lumped with stuff that breaks down very slowly, pollutes our environment and can get into the food chain to the ultimate detriment of human beings?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2016, 10:05:31 PM by Hope »
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Shaker

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Re: Odd laws
« Reply #42 on: June 01, 2016, 10:05:17 PM »
Why should our wildlife have to put up with the mess and danger that such items create?
That - and a very great deal else beside - could be sorted by having fewer people in the world. If impact on wildlife is a concern, the single biggest service you can perform is not to create yet more people who wilfully/consciously or not destroy their habitats through one means or another.

Was impact on wildlife one of the reasons given for bringing in the charge?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2016, 10:07:19 PM by Shaker »
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Hope

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Re: Odd laws
« Reply #43 on: June 01, 2016, 10:11:19 PM »
Mr Cynical here!! I think something is going on, why is there a Ronald McDonald hospice attached to NHS hospitals, why does the NHS have its own lottery.

Tories are better than Houdini, they are doing it right in front of us, NHS! nevermind the NHS! ...
Gonners, NHS trusts - at least south of your border - have had trust and group lotteries for years.  The first national one (which I accept wasn't very successful) was introduced in 1988, but many individual health boards had their own long before that.
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Udayana

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Re: Odd laws
« Reply #44 on: June 01, 2016, 10:59:38 PM »
See #30

Is this true? Why would they increase the weight of the bags? If the 5p bags are actually reusable - maybe they should charge more? We have our own bags or the "bags for life" type.
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

Udayana

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Re: Odd laws
« Reply #45 on: June 01, 2016, 11:00:30 PM »
That - and a very great deal else beside - could be sorted by having fewer people in the world. If impact on wildlife is a concern, the single biggest service you can perform is not to create yet more people who wilfully/consciously or not destroy their habitats through one means or another.

Was impact on wildlife one of the reasons given for bringing in the charge?

They could tax children?
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

Shaker

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Re: Odd laws
« Reply #46 on: June 01, 2016, 11:06:21 PM »
They could tax children?
Or take the logically prior step of taxing those who produce them ;)
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L.A.

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Re: Odd laws
« Reply #47 on: June 02, 2016, 07:36:38 AM »
Is this true? Why would they increase the weight of the bags? If the 5p bags are actually reusable - maybe they should charge more? We have our own bags or the "bags for life" type.

I don't know why they do it - maybe everyone just feels that they have to offer value for money if they are charging.

'Bags for Life' are one of those ideas that seem great in principle but don't work too well in practice (well not for me anyway). I have bought several and most have ended up down the tip.
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Shaker

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Re: Odd laws
« Reply #48 on: June 02, 2016, 08:09:04 AM »
If I live long enough to see out every bag for life I've got, I'll end up at 800.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Rhiannon

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Re: Odd laws
« Reply #49 on: June 02, 2016, 08:19:49 AM »
I find they end up being used for anything but shopping -  swimming kit, trainers, change of clothes...

When I've been using them in Tesco and found one with a hole the cashier has offered to replace it for free.