Author Topic: Why bother ringing 911?  (Read 53845 times)

Hope

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Re: Why bother ringing 911?
« Reply #300 on: August 12, 2016, 01:31:52 PM »
An imaginary illness dreamed up by people to sell you an imaginary cure.
Khatru, since a synonym for 'sin' is 'wrongdoing', your definition is pretty well worthless.  Sin is all about putting oneself first - something that is all too common in our culture and society.
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Hope

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Re: Why bother ringing 911?
« Reply #301 on: August 12, 2016, 01:35:44 PM »
Your liink confirms what I have said and what Hope denies - that their belief that their homosexuallity is/was wrong was a religious belief not a personal one!
One or two examples aren't much of a ground to suggest that there are homosexuals who regard their sexuality as wrong.  I've worked with people who are 1) non-religious and 2) homosexual, who hold this understanding.
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Gordon

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Re: Why bother ringing 911?
« Reply #302 on: August 12, 2016, 03:59:46 PM »
One or two examples aren't much of a ground to suggest that there are homosexuals who regard their sexuality as wrong.  I've worked with people who are 1) non-religious and 2) homosexual, who hold this understanding.

That's nice: and on what basis is this presumption of 'wrongness' justified?

Might just be their personal opinion.

Hope

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Re: Why bother ringing 911?
« Reply #303 on: August 12, 2016, 04:25:35 PM »
That's nice: and on what basis is this presumption of 'wrongness' justified?

Might just be their personal opinion.
It might well be - as opposed to anything to do with a religious belief, which is (of course) what others seem to want it make to be.  Two of the folk were/are of a scientific bent, and (like many here) they insisted that scientific evidence underpinned everything they believed.
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Gordon

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Re: Why bother ringing 911?
« Reply #304 on: August 12, 2016, 04:29:03 PM »
It might well be - as opposed to anything to do with a religious belief, which is (of course) what others seem to want it make to be.  Two of the folk were/are of a scientific bent, and (like many here) they insisted that scientific evidence underpinned everything they believed.

On what basis?

Hope

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Re: Why bother ringing 911?
« Reply #305 on: August 12, 2016, 05:33:37 PM »
On what basis?
Probably on the same basis you claim for scientific evidence, Gordon.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Why bother ringing 911?
« Reply #306 on: August 12, 2016, 05:37:13 PM »
Probably on the same basis you claim for scientific evidence, Gordon.
What basis does Gordon 'Claim for scientific evidence'? And what does that even mean?

Gordon

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Re: Why bother ringing 911?
« Reply #307 on: August 12, 2016, 05:44:21 PM »
Probably on the same basis you claim for scientific evidence, Gordon.

I'm not claiming anything in this exchange: I'm simply asking you about the basis of the claims you raised.

Sounds like either you don't know or you're kite flying again. 

Hope

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Re: Why bother ringing 911?
« Reply #308 on: August 13, 2016, 06:11:16 PM »
I'm not claiming anything in this exchange: I'm simply asking you about the basis of the claims you raised.

Sounds like either you don't know or you're kite flying again.
Unlike you, I don't interrogate everyone on the grounds for their beliefs.  However, in view of these folks' regular 'appeal to science' and their lack of a religious faith, I've always assumed that when they said that they held this view on scientific grounds that was good enough.
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Gordon

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Re: Why bother ringing 911?
« Reply #309 on: August 13, 2016, 06:37:01 PM »
Unlike you, I don't interrogate everyone on the grounds for their beliefs.  However, in view of these folks' regular 'appeal to science' and their lack of a religious faith, I've always assumed that when they said that they held this view on scientific grounds that was good enough.

So, as I suspected, you don't know the basis of their views: which makes your raising of them redundant.

Hope

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Re: Why bother ringing 911?
« Reply #310 on: August 13, 2016, 07:35:47 PM »
So, as I suspected, you don't know the basis of their views: which makes your raising of them redundant.
And, as I've long suspected Gordon, you don't read posts properly.  As I said in my previous post, I don't interrogate people on their beliefs, but when they volunteer the fact that they believe something on scientific grounds - I tend to accept that.  Perhaps I ought to chnge that approach, and question whenever the idea is used.
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Gordon

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Re: Why bother ringing 911?
« Reply #311 on: August 13, 2016, 08:50:59 PM »
And, as I've long suspected Gordon, you don't read posts properly.  As I said in my previous post, I don't interrogate people on their beliefs, but when they volunteer the fact that they believe something on scientific grounds - I tend to accept that.  Perhaps I ought to chnge that approach, and question whenever the idea is used.

You should question of course, since they might be wrong or even if they are correct you might have misunderstood what they told you. Nice try by the way, but you seem to have forgotten what you said earlier to prompt this exchange, which was:

It might well be - as opposed to anything to do with a religious belief, which is (of course) what others seem to want it make to be.  Two of the folk were/are of a scientific bent, and (like many here) they insisted that scientific evidence underpinned everything they believed.

Then I asked on what basis, in that since you specifically state 'scientific evidence' is involved it seems reasonable to ask you what this 'scientific evidence' is, since for you to imply these views are informed by science suggests you know something of the relevant science supporting their views - else why would you cite these people.

So, if you don't know anything of the details then for you to accept their arguments as being science-informed does seem, as I said earlier, gullible on your part: especially since they might be wrong, or since you may have misunderstood the scientific basis of their argument. However, if you do know then you should be able to easily answer my 'on what basis' question and we can then consider whether or not their science claim is sound. 

Either way, given your evasion of my 'on what basis; question, this smacks of being yet another of your anecdotal claims that contain nothing more that baseless assertion.

 

Brownie

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Re: Why bother ringing 911?
« Reply #312 on: August 13, 2016, 08:52:40 PM »
I am wondering how and why the subject of right or wrong regarding homosexuality even came up with work colleagues.

However, here is something a bit different (not concerning 911 but we seem to have gone off that anyway):

http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/12/07/gay-penguin-pair-adopts-a-baby-chick-in-china/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2629258/Gay-penguins-adopt-abandoned-chick-wildlife-park-claims-best-parents-had.html
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 09:16:00 PM by Brownie »
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Gordon

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Re: Why bother ringing 911?
« Reply #313 on: August 13, 2016, 09:15:49 PM »
I am wondering how and why the subject of right or wrong regarding homosexuality even came up with work colleagues.
Me too, especially since 'wrong' in terms of a moral position isn't a scientific question - that some scientists may believe this on a personal basis is neither here nor there: this would be just be their opinion.

I'd be very interested to see a professional scientist cite scientific evidence supporting this 'wrongness' being an objective fact: if so I'd expect to see, for example, a method for recognising, measuring and categorising 'wrongness': we don't though, but instead we get argument from weak anecdote along the lines of 'scientists I've met agree with me' or else we get fallacious arguments from authority or consequences - or a mix of the two.
 

Khatru

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Re: Why bother ringing 911?
« Reply #314 on: August 14, 2016, 11:07:46 AM »
Khatru, since a synonym for 'sin' is 'wrongdoing', your definition is pretty well worthless.  Sin is all about putting oneself first - something that is all too common in our culture and society.

Wrongdoing?

What's wrong with freedom of religion? 

As for being worthless, perhaps you should look a little closer to home first.  From reading the Bible and listening to what believers say, it's plain to see that their supreme cosmic mega-being is quite out-of step with the values and ethics that the best of us try to adhere to.





"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

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Hope

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Re: Why bother ringing 911?
« Reply #315 on: August 14, 2016, 03:22:04 PM »
Wrongdoing?

What's wrong with freedom of religion? 

As for being worthless, perhaps you should look a little closer to home first.  From reading the Bible and listening to what believers say, it's plain to see that their supreme cosmic mega-being is quite out-of step with the values and ethics that the best of us try to adhere to.
Does freedom of religion mean that you are unable to do anything wrong?

As for your second paragraph, I'd suggest that the values and ethics of modern Western society lacks many of the 'vs and es' that have marked the best human societies - such as caring for the weak, the disadvantaged, the marginalised and many others like that, and that the 'supreme cosmic mega-being' (whatever that might be) which you refer to both typifies and encourages those humanising 'vs and es'.

However, you are entitled to your opinions and interpretations as to what is best for humanity.
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Khatru

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Re: Why bother ringing 911?
« Reply #316 on: August 16, 2016, 10:04:38 AM »
Does freedom of religion mean that you are unable to do anything wrong?

As for your second paragraph, I'd suggest that the values and ethics of modern Western society lacks many of the 'vs and es' that have marked the best human societies - such as caring for the weak, the disadvantaged, the marginalised and many others like that, and that the 'supreme cosmic mega-being' (whatever that might be) which you refer to both typifies and encourages those humanising 'vs and es'.

However, you are entitled to your opinions and interpretations as to what is best for humanity.


If how we treat each other is what your chosen god values most then that's fine.

However, if it's more important to him that we spend our lives telling him how great he is then he's wasting his time.
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

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floo

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Re: Why bother ringing 911?
« Reply #317 on: August 19, 2016, 11:05:33 AM »
Any god which requires worship is a SICKO, imo.

Brownie

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Re: Why bother ringing 911?
« Reply #318 on: August 19, 2016, 03:39:55 PM »
Hullo floo, wondered where you were.
This is for you by way of welcome back :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXN1yxax448
Let us profit by what every day and hour teaches us

floo

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Re: Why bother ringing 911?
« Reply #319 on: August 19, 2016, 04:51:29 PM »
Hullo floo, wondered where you were.
This is for you by way of welcome back :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXN1yxax448

:D :D :D





Sassy

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Re: Why bother ringing 911?
« Reply #320 on: September 19, 2016, 01:34:00 AM »

If how we treat each other is what your chosen god values most then that's fine.

However, if it's more important to him that we spend our lives telling him how great he is then he's wasting his time.

It is how we view the importance of truth.
You see truth is a valuable commodity to the God of the Bible.
So what we value that truth to be, is what decides the value we place on God and how it will affect our lives.

Does an all-powerful God who can do absolutely anything really require to be told he is great?
I feel to acknowledge he exists and thank him is the most we could really offer. We see things differently. I think Gods truth stands on it own.
We know we have to work together to abolish war and terrorism to create a compassionate  world in which Justice and peace prevail. Love ;D   Einstein
 "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

floo

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Re: Why bother ringing 911?
« Reply #321 on: September 19, 2016, 08:55:06 AM »
It is how we view the importance of truth.
You see truth is a valuable commodity to the God of the Bible.
So what we value that truth to be, is what decides the value we place on God and how it will affect our lives.

Does an all-powerful God who can do absolutely anything really require to be told he is great?
I feel to acknowledge he exists and thank him is the most we could really offer. We see things differently. I think Gods truth stands on it own.


Truth and the most of the Biblical accounts are an oxymoron, imo.

NicholasMarks

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Re: Why bother ringing 911?
« Reply #322 on: September 19, 2016, 09:25:02 AM »

Truth and the most of the Biblical accounts are an oxymoron, imo.


I will get round to looking up oxymoron one day Floo but I'm sure it is offensive to those who have faith...like Jesus Christ say, who died to show us that there are mechanics alive in our planet which can resurrect those who follow his teaching.

Innocence is also covered because it is the same mechanics that resurrects the righteous that is at work in the innocence of those who are more caring and well...righteous. So...it is wise to follow Jesus' teaching.

It wont prevent these terrible accidents occurring as is the original theme of this topic...but it will offer resurrection to a new vessel, when necessary, it will offer comfort and caring to those grieving or in shock as it did here, or if the worst had come to the worst and...with a little energy spent on de-brain-washing, as I recommend to you all...it might have even given more alertness so that the early warning signs of such an impending danger were picked up quicker. As it is the safety measures which are well practised for these events seemed to have worked in this case.

« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 09:27:10 AM by NicholasMarks »

BashfulAnthony

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Re: Why bother ringing 911?
« Reply #323 on: September 19, 2016, 10:35:26 AM »
Any god which requires worship is a SICKO, imo.

Floo is incapable of distinguishing between worship and love.  But then, it's hard to see beyond the end of your nose when you are as biased as she.
BA.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

It is my commandment that you love one another."

floo

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Re: Why bother ringing 911?
« Reply #324 on: September 19, 2016, 10:45:09 AM »

I will get round to looking up oxymoron one day Floo but I'm sure it is offensive to those who have faith...like Jesus Christ say, who died to show us that there are mechanics alive in our planet which can resurrect those who follow his teaching.

Innocence is also covered because it is the same mechanics that resurrects the righteous that is at work in the innocence of those who are more caring and well...righteous. So...it is wise to follow Jesus' teaching.

It wont prevent these terrible accidents occurring as is the original theme of this topic...but it will offer resurrection to a new vessel, when necessary, it will offer comfort and caring to those grieving or in shock as it did here, or if the worst had come to the worst and...with a little energy spent on de-brain-washing, as I recommend to you all...it might have even given more alertness so that the early warning signs of such an impending danger were picked up quicker. As it is the safety measures which are well practised for these events seemed to have worked in this case.

(((((Oxymoron is a figure of speech in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction.))))

One would have thought that someone claiming to know about science would know the meaning of that word!