Answers to prayers?

[Brownie]

The Catholic Church used to teach that a child reaches the age of reason at seven years, or thereabouts.
There's also the Jesuit saying, "Give me a boy 'til the age of seven and I will give you the man".
Small kids tend to think the grown ups are always right but after a while, they start to question which is natural and to be encouraged.  They have to be able to work things out for themselves and live their own lives.

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

The Catholic Church used to teach that a child reaches the age of reason at seven years, or thereabouts.
There's also the Jesuit saying, "Give me a boy 'til the age of seven and I will give you the man".
Small kids tend to think the grown ups are always right but after a while, they start to question which is natural and to be encouraged.  They have to be able to work things out for themselves and live their own lives.

So you wouldn't worry about a child less than 7 being told that suicide bombing is OK or that homosexuals are damaged? Because as they get older they might reject that view?
Don't you think that any chid whatever age should be encouraged to think things through?

[Sassy]

Sassy,

No, you were correct only in the sense that you found a source that agrees with you. There are others. The point though is that you were incorrect in your basic contention about atheism and faith.

I used the correct word full-stop.

If you keep digging you will end up in Australia...

[bluehillside Retd.]

Brownie,

These statements:

The Catholic Church used to teach that a child reaches the age of reason at seven years, or thereabouts.
There's also the Jesuit saying, "Give me a boy 'til the age of seven and I will give you the man".

and this one:

Small kids tend to think the grown ups are always right but after a while, they start to question which is natural and to be encouraged.  They have to be able to work things out for themselves and live their own lives.

are contradictory. It's precisely because small children lack reasoning power and because beliefs indoctrinated in early years tend to stick in later life that the churches want to get to them so young, and that's why I take a less benign view than you do of AB's supposed goodness.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sassy,

I used the correct word full-stop.

If you keep digging you will end up in Australia...

Nope - it's more nuanced than that. Try reading the article linked to for starters.

Right or wrong about the etymology though, you were still flat wrong about your "atheism = faith" nonsense.

[ippy]

Brownie,

These statements:

and this one:

are contradictory. It's precisely because small children lack reasoning power and because beliefs indoctrinated in early years tend to stick in later life that the churches want to get to them so young, and that's why I take a less benign view than you do of AB's supposed goodness.

Ditto.

ippy

[Sassy]

Sassy,

Nope - it's more nuanced than that. Try reading the article linked to for starters.

Right or wrong about the etymology though, you were still flat wrong about your "atheism = faith" nonsense.

Nah!  I used the correct word full-stop. You can disagree but you cannot prove I was incorrect.

FULL STOP!

[Étienne d'Angleterre]

Nah!  I used the correct word full-stop. You can disagree but you cannot prove I was incorrect.

FULL STOP!

Nah! You told lies about me full stop. You can disagree but it is a fact that you did.

FULL STOP!

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sassy,

Nah!  I used the correct word full-stop. You can disagree but you cannot prove I was incorrect.

FULL STOP!

Oh thank goodness you added that "FULL STOP", and in capitals too! Well done. That seals the deal then I guess, so what do I know with my daft use of argument and evidence. Do you mind if I give it a go? Thanks:

The moon is just a giant ball of Odin's ear wax ejected when he underwent the traditional Norse vasectomy method using two bricks.

FULL STOP!

Ooh, you're right - it's kind of liberating. OK, your turn...

[bluehillside Retd.]

Aw no Sassy, turns out I was right all along - there's ambiguity in the meaning. Here for example from Wiki:

"Verb[edit]

disbelieve ‎(third-person singular simple present disbelieves, present participle disbelieving, simple past and past participle disbelieved)

1. To not believe; to exercise disbelief.

2. To actively deny (a statement, opinion or perception).
He chose to disbelieve the bad news as inconceivable.

3. To cease to believe."

As I explained to you, you were correct in the sense that you found a definition you liked aligned to option 1, but not in respect of the meaning at option 2.

Either way though, your basic point remains wrong - the "faith" the religious use for "God" is qualitatively different from the reasoning atheists use to unpick the arguments they attempts for it.

FULL STOP!

[jeremyp]

Nah!  I used the correct word full-stop. You can disagree but you cannot prove I was incorrect.

FULL STOP!

You are wrong

Full Bloody Stop

[floo]

When prayers have a positive outcome, like someone's recovery from illness, it is more than likely they would have recovered anyway, prayer or no prayer.

[Brownie]

So you wouldn't worry about a child less than 7 being told that suicide bombing is OK or that homosexuals are damaged? Because as they get older they might reject that view?
Don't you think that any chid whatever age should be encouraged to think things through?

I was merely illustrating the type of thought that exists, or used to exist, in the church and no doubt was the case in other religious groups.  Not my opinions. I kicked out against established values when I was a child and feel strongly that kids need to grow up in an environment where they are free to explore - and do not hear prejudice and bigotry in their own home; they'll hear enough of that when they go to school but, hopefully, they will find such attitudes alien and question them.

[ippy]

I was merely illustrating the type of thought that exists, or used to exist, in the church and no doubt was the case in other religious groups.  Not my opinions. I kicked out against established values when I was a child and feel strongly that kids need to grow up in an environment where they are free to explore - and do not hear prejudice and bigotry in their own home; they'll hear enough of that when they go to school but, hopefully, they will find such attitudes alien and question them.

It looks to me as though you're hearing things you don't want to hear going by the context of your posting.

In my idea of an ideal world, no teaching of any kind of dogma to children aged seven or under that age the only thing I would advocate would be to prepare youngsters to be thinking for themselves, technically indoctrination, yes, but it would be of a neutral benefit to all, hopefully without bias in any way.   

These youngsters are the recruiting ground for all of the vulture like religions, it's their most productive ground for new members; it's no good thinking religious organisations wouldn't behave like that, they know precisely what it is they are doing.

ippy

[Owlswing]

The Jesuit motto:

Give me a child until he is seven, and I will give you the man.

(This nostrum, attributed to St. Francis Xavier, also works for girls and women)

[ippy]

The Jesuit motto:

Give me a child until he is seven, and I will give you the man.

(This nostrum, attributed to St. Francis Xavier, also works for girls and women)

Why wouldn't it be for all children male, female or any shade between the two?

Exactly as described by the Jesuits all those years ago.

ippy

[Sassy]

You are wrong

Full Bloody Stop

Shows how unable any of you are to admit your own errors.
I used the correct word for the correct definition and you just can't help yourselves thinking it can be used for a wind up when it shows how little you know in reality.

[Owlswing]

Shows how unable any of you are to admit your own errors.
I used the correct word for the correct definition and you just can't help yourselves thinking it can be used for a wind up when it shows how little you know in reality.

So modest!

[Hope]

Why wouldn't it be for all children male, female or any shade between the two?

Exactly as described by the Jesuits all those years ago.

ippy

Not sure what the phrase would have been in latin, or Spanish, but in correct English, the 'he' pronoun is a gender-neutral one.  'She' and its derivatives is, historically and grammatically (even today) the only gender-marked pronoun in English.

[Maeght]

There is no personal proof about Gods existence for atheists.
They just don't want to believe they have no personal proof for their disbelief.

Most atheists don't have a belief in God or gods but accept there existence is possible. This is not having a belief.

Some say for certain there is no God and this is having a belief.

The definition of atheist has changed over the years and is used to mean different things by different people but to say that atheists don't want to believe and have a belief themselves is not true for most people who would consider themselves non-believers.

[jeremyp]

Shows how unable any of you are to admit your own errors.
I used the correct word for the correct definition and you just can't help yourselves thinking it can be used for a wind up when it shows how little you know in reality.

You realise I was only echoing your own tactics? Any criticism you have of my post is actually a criticism of your own posts.

[Owlswing]

You realise I was only echoing your own tactics? Any criticism you have of my post is actually a criticism of your own posts.

  - to the sound of loud applause!

[Gordon]

Moderator:

In spite of my earlier Mod Post regarding personal comments about others, as opposed to their arguments, this has continued to varying degrees. Therefore, we have decided to remove these posts and in doing so suggest that discussing other members in terms of their suitability, or otherwise, as individuals is something we'd prefer not to see.

Going to lock this while I do the above - Done