Who's for IN and who's for OUT:

[Brownie]

Thrud,

Can you add a further option to your poll. Exit and take care of our own homeless and poor, then take care of the rest of the world.

We do take care of our own homeless and poor though there is and will always be room for improvement;  we don't particularly care for the rest of the world except in certain instances when it would be inhumane not to.  We have been helped by other nations in times of strife but we are a fairly wealthy country compared to many;  in theory there should be no poor and homeless but we have an imperfect system.

[Aruntraveller]

We do take care of our own homeless and poor though there is and will always be room for improvement;  we don't particularly care for the rest of the world except in certain instances when it would be inhumane not to.  We have been helped by other nations in times of strife but we are a fairly wealthy country compared to many;  in theory there should be no poor and homeless but we have an imperfect system.

I was going to male the same point Brownie, so thank you for saving me the bother. That we have a government that has priorities that do not include the homeless and poor is down to our own choices and nothing to do with the EU.

[Sassy]

So no one is allowed to think differently to Sass. There is a word for that.

It does not say that....

All anyone has done on here is debate what they have been told. God forbid anyone makes their own mind up on what is best for us in the long run. We won two world wars to stop people like Hitler from taking away our freedom.

It was about the above underlined. Hence you should pay attention..der....

 

We do take care of our own homeless and poor though there is and will always be room for improvement;  we don't particularly care for the rest of the world except in certain instances when it would be inhumane not to.  We have been helped by other nations in times of strife but we are a fairly wealthy country compared to many;  in theory there should be no poor and homeless but we have an imperfect system.

What a load of rubbish YOU don't take care of our homeless or the poor. We would not have ANY if you or we did. I do go on the streets and feed them and I do see what happens even in the hospitals where they send them out with life threatening conditions to die. Making excuses that these seriously ill people want a bed for the night. Hence they die from complications.

You haven't a clue Brownie as your answer clearly shows lack of reality of what is happening on the streets.

My brother went to meet the then prime minister and the big issue editor to discuss issues of the homeless and the hospitals. I can tell you as he told them, you don't know what goes on and help was NOT being given.
Those who die do so because they are turned away from medical help. They also get moved out of safe doorways when asleep by police because they don't want Joe public to see the reality of how they live.
In Manchester they won't allow them into use the public toilets so where do you think they do their peeing and pooing. You live in your lovely middle class world with your middle class house and middle class way of life.
God forbid you go beyond your own perfect little world and venture into the reality of the homeless.

It is attitudes like your own from the more affluent in our society which stops them getting help and helps them to feel the lowest form of human life.

[Aruntraveller]

Nurse the curtains and hypodermic - she's off again.

[floo]

I would sooner give money to help needy migrants and the starving in Africa, than to most of those who beg on the streets, knowing many of them will spend it on alcohol or drugs.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Brexit will be a fucking disaster which I bet we will feel straight away.

[Hope]

..., we don't particularly care for the rest of the world except in certain instances when it would be inhumane not to.

Brownie, I think you'll find that we are one of the highest nations in terms of the money we give (not loan, any longer) to poorer nations.  You will also find that the massive bi-lateral contracts that we and other nations used to rely on as aid vehicles are being replaced with far more targetted and locally specific grants - often through INGOs and NGOs that have been carefully vetted.

[Brownie]

That's good Hope.  So we should.
I'm going to edit my previous post to add something; I thought of saying it first time round but because, to this day, I find it quite difficult, I didn't, but now I think, why not.

[Sassy]

Brexit will be a fucking disaster which I bet we will feel straight away.

Nah! it will be the best thing for us, but not for those leaving....

[Udayana]

Who will be "leaving"?

[Brownie]

Those who are not "us" I suppose - who, er, support Brexit - not quite sure of the meaning.
Maybe Sass meant ''Left Behind' rather than "leaving", no doubt she will explain sine die.

[L.A.]

Who will be "leaving"?

We will be leaving all vestiges of sanity and  waltzing of to La La Land.

[Shaker]

As long as it's not L.A. land I'll be content with whatever we get.

[Rhiannon]

We will be leaving all vestiges of sanity and  waltzing of to La La Land.

Isn't that the place with giant rabbits, a giggling baby sun and Toyah Wilcox?

(I won't mention the e's falling from the sky.)

[Brownie]

That sounds pretty cool to me Rhiannon, as long as it's warm and not too noisy.
E numbers though are not my scene, prefer organic food;  Vitamin E would be OK  .

[Rhiannon]

Fortunately Toyah doesn't sing.

Tinky Winky does get followed around by his own personal rain cloud though. I'd suggest not wearing purple if you prefer to stay dry.

Btw the Hoover thing with the face is utterly terrifying but I think the EU has since banned them.

[Ricky Spanish]

Thrud,

Can you add a further option to your poll. Exit and take care of our own homeless and poor, then take care of the rest of the world.

Nope because basically the "I'm alright Jack" covers that option.

[Sassy]

Nope because basically the "I'm alright Jack" covers that option.

You mean it covers both exists Can you really stay and go at the same time...

A real Clash now of 'should I stay or should I go.'

[Sassy]

The third option is not really an "I am alright, Jack" option is it? Because in or out it is going to affect them somehow.
But, I believe the stay in option would damage us too much we should not lose our independence to make decisions for ourselves.

A little like the old boys club isn't it.

[Sassy]

Well we don't really know that the money will be spent on alcohol and drugs, floo, though the popular press leads us to think in that direction and of course, some will.   One can always buy a sandwich, apple, cup of coffee and give to them if we feel moved.  Maybe a little loose change.  I used to see a lot of people on the streets when I worked up n town and have to say it became commonplace during Thatcher's government, was rarely seen before that.People living in doorways, all bundled up in old coats asleep, with a few possessions in bags.  Some of the people had mental health problems.

I worked for a homeless charity for a while in central London, some of the people did have drink problems though they were not allowed to come to the centre whilst in drink. A great many had mental health issues. They had some respite there, could eat, change clothes, shower etc.  Just be normal, play table tennis maybe, read and chat. 

A few of us (including clergy) tried to set up a drop in centre at our local church, in the church hall, but that didn't come to anything unfortunately. There was a lot of opposition, mainly because the church hall was used for many other things and various internal politics.  Edit: There was a big meeting and members of various groups brought evidence of how much they did for overseas charities.  Because we had said it would be a good idea to open a drop in centre to "help those on our doorstep", they (deliberately) interpreted it to mean that we felt we should help them at the expense of helping those abroad.  Nothing could have been further from the truth, there was no reason at all why we couldn't do both!  The anti's didn't like the idea of their precious hall possibly encouraging 'undesirables' and making the place messy.  It was horrible.  As if we hadn't considered the cleaning up etc.  Very disillusioning.

I also worked for five years with people in prison who had many social issues which they and their families had to face when they left.

A good charity to support is this one: 
https://www.trusselltrust.org/get-help/find-a-foodbank/?gclid=CNnm-43fqc0CFUKc2wodGmULmA
There are other organisations that run food banks, I know of the above one because there is somewhere local to me that organises food supplies for poor people.

Any of us could have found ourselves in that position if something had gone wrong in our lives.  I'm sure it is the same in every country.

Of course our government should do more and not rely on charities but we have to deal with the here and now and cannot stand aside when people are in need.

We've gone off the point a bit.  I'm sure being in our out of the EU will not have any immediate effect on the poor and homeless in any country but people do generally have more rights, especially the sick, the young and children, because of the EU.

Do you believe the things you did then which you talk about you having done above would really reflect the truth of the present day issues?

People on the streets are not given their rights when it comes to the NHS and the EU isn't helping because our NHS is inundated with the volume of people having been increased that they have to treat.
When the NHS gone because of the EU and private medicine has been brought in. Only the rich will be able to afford medical treatment.

In March Bren a friend sent home when having a stroke blood not even tested back hours later
paralysed down one side,. They never sent the bloods had they done so they would have known he was having a stroke.


http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/family-haunted-memory-mum-left-die-hospital/story-26459356-detail/story.html

A woman of 83 left to die in a corridor no beds..

Being in the EU isn't helping our over worked medical system. And I believe it will be got rid so you have to pay eventually.

Is being in the EU of any real use in the long run.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Do you believe the things you did then which you talk about you having done above would really reflect the truth of the present day issues?

People on the streets are not given their rights when it comes to the NHS and the EU isn't helping because our NHS is inundated with the volume of people having been increased that they have to treat.
When the NHS gone because of the EU and private medicine has been brought in. Only the rich will be able to afford medical treatment.

In March Bren a friend sent home when having a stroke blood not even tested back hours later
paralysed down one side,. They never sent the bloods had they done so they would have known he was having a stroke.


http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/family-haunted-memory-mum-left-die-hospital/story-26459356-detail/story.html

A woman of 83 left to die in a corridor no beds..

Being in the EU isn't helping our over worked medical system. And I believe it will be got rid so you have to pay eventually.

Is being in the EU of any real use in the long run.

The problem Sassy is that we spend less on health than most countries in the UK.

The Brexit version is a lie.

The people who would obviously take charge of a Brexit government are anti NHS to a man.

[jeremyp]

our NHS is inundated with the volume of people having been increased that they have to treat.

How many people?

When the NHS gone because of the EU and private medicine has been brought in. Only the rich will be able to afford medical treatment.

Believe me, the NHS is in far less danger from the EU than our own government. And if the Brexiters win and the government is taken over by rabid wing nuts like Michael Gove, it won't get any better.

Also, if we throw out all the EU citizens using the NHS, they'll throw out all the British citizens using other EU health services and guess what? They cost more than the EU citizens here do.

You Brexiters really are totally clueless.

[jakswan]

Believe me, the NHS is in far less danger from the EU than our own government. And if the Brexiters win and the government is taken over by rabid wing nuts like Michael Gove, it won't get any better.

Our democratically elected Government? Gove isn't that right wing and insult is not a substitute for argument.

Also, if we throw out all the EU citizens using the NHS, they'll throw out all the British citizens using other EU health services and guess what? They cost more than the EU citizens here do.

Nobody will be thrown out.

You Brexiters really are totally clueless.

Jeremy you've decided to debate with Sass (personally I wouldn't bother) you don't have to go down to her level.

[jeremyp]

Our democratically elected Government? Gove isn't that right wing and insult is not a substitute for argument.

He's an idiot and he will dismantle the NHS. The NHS is not in any danger whatsoever from the EU.

Nobody will be thrown out.

Sassy seems to think they will be.That's the reason she thinks we are leaving: so we can get rid of Johnny Foreigner.

Jeremy you've decided to debate with Sass (personally I wouldn't bother) you don't have to go down to her level.

I chose to debate on that point because it symbolises one of the biggest problems with Brexiters. They forget that this is a two way street. Yes, Europeans are coming here, but that is because our economy is doing well. In worse times, the migration goes the other way. In the 1980's lots of our people went to Europe to find work because there was none in Britain. You Brexiters make it look like we are happy to take from the EU but when it comes to giving back, we are selfish bastards. I do not want to be tarred with that brush and your attitude of take take take makes me very angry.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Our democratically elected Government? Gove isn't that right wing and insult is not a substitute for argument.

Nobody will be thrown out.

Jeremy you've decided to debate with Sass (personally I wouldn't bother) you don't have to go down to her level.

Jak

What will be done by Michael Gove for those who will lose their jobs, homes, experience family breakup etc because of Brexit?