Who's for IN and who's for OUT:

[Nearly Sane]

But it hasn't. I don't believe you.   The tide of public opinion is still as it was.

It's all hype by some remain voters throwing there teddies out of the pram because remain lost and they can't cope with the reality of democracy.

If I hear one more dishonest and disingenuous suggestion from a remain supporter to enforce a vote they basically lost, I'm going to start to want to disown them.
That and the politicians implicit in it.

It's dishonerable.

It's embarrassing and pathetic.

Give it a rest!

He didn't say it had changed. I suggest you owe him an apology.

[Bubbles]

He didn't say it had changed. I suggest you owe him an apology.

I don't,  because if it hasn't changed he had no point to make and mine still stands!

[Nearly Sane]

I don't,  because if it hasn't changed he had no point to make.

you stated that he said that it had changed. He didn't. It may have been an error on your part but if you don't admit it as an error then you are just lying.

[jeremyp]

But it hasn't. I don't believe you.   The tide of public opinion is still as it was.

But the article 50 triggering is still months away. Plenty of time for things to change.

It's all hype by some remain voters throwing their teddies out of the pram because remain lost and they can't cope with the reality of democracy.

The reality of democracy is that sometimes bad decisions are made. The strength of democracy is that they can be reversed.

If I hear one more dishonest and disingenuous suggestion from a remain supporter to enforce a vote they basically lost, I'm going to start to want to disown them.
That and the politicians implicit in it.

It's dishonourable.

It's embarrassing and pathetic.

Your attitude is embarrassing and pathetic. This was a bad decision and we are all in for masses of pain - well all except the richest people. As things stand we have to go through with it, but please stop telling me to like it.

Give it a rest!

No, you give all this "we are all in this together" bullshit a rest. I'm really angry about what happened and your patronising attitude is only winding me up further.

[jakswan]

Which was the wrong thing to do.

In your opinion, my opinion dictates who I vote. You are free to offer arguments to change my opinion which you did by blindly asserting I'm wrong and calling me names.

Saying you were right just because 52% of voters agree with you is argument ad populum.

Never said that.

The Bank of England has just allocated £250 billion to shore up the banks in case of financial instability caused by your vote. That's the equivalent of 30 years of EU contributions. Have you got anything to say about that and the likely loss of jobs due to companies moving to other parts of Europe. When are you going to admit that your decision has caused chaos and will likely lead to much hardship?

The country's democratic decision, too early to say if there will chaos and hardship.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Rose,

The word is if Jeremy was asking if it changes, if the country see's that it has made a ghastly mistake, and so far that is what it looks like, early days of course, but I for one don't see any reason to just suck it up and accept it, I await Johnson, Gove or even Farage coming out and explaining "the fucking plan" and "the fucking plan" better be " a fucking awesome, terrific, stupendous plan".

I will accept that the absence of the above three is down to the fact that they are off getting hammered and celebrating, but I will expect them to be ship shape and Bristol fashion tomorrow or Tuesday to explain to us, the good people of the United Kingdom just what is "the fucking plan".

My apologies for all the swearing, but right now the very mention of the above three makes me want to spit.

Gonnagle.

[Bubbles]

Dear Rose,

The word is if Jeremy was asking if it changes, if the country see's that it has made a ghastly mistake, and so far that is what it looks like, early days of course, but I for one don't see any reason to just suck it up and accept it, I await Johnson, Gove or even Farage coming out and explaining "the fucking plan" and "the fucking plan" better be " a fucking awesome, terrific, stupendous plan".

I will accept that the absence of the above three is down to the fact that they are off getting hammered and celebrating, but I will expect them to be ship shape and Bristol fashion tomorrow or Tuesday to explain to us, the good people of the United Kingdom just what is "the fucking plan".

My apologies for all the swearing, but right now the very mention of the above three makes me want to spit.

Gonnagle.

In many ways I'm with you Gonnagle.

If there was unrefutable evidence the vast majority wanted another vote, then I suppose we would have to do it and go by the result.

But I'm reluctant to believe everything I hear, because most of it sounds like the losers can't accept they lost.

You can't keep people voting till you get the answer you want.

IMO the government is responsible and have let us all down by allowing this vote to happen before there were clear ideas on paper of what the plan was going to be.

No one seemed to think it was going to happen, so no one bothered to think about what would happen if it did.

That's bad organisation.

The government should have put some thought into it, before we voted. Even if they didn't agree with th idea.

They have left us vunerable IMO.

Why it's ok to vote for independance or Brexit before you have some idea of how you are going to proceed ....... Is beyond me. 

They should have an outline at least before people are asked to vote.

Perhaps we need something in our " constitution" that if the public are going to be offered a referendum of some sort, outline plans have to be made for all outcomes.

Politicians get paid enough to sort this...........

The leave side should have put through their suggestions  and outline plan before we all got involved.

It's a right mess!

They couldn't organise a piss up at a brewery, the lot of em.

 

[jeremyp]

In your opinion, my opinion dictates who I vote. You are free to offer arguments to change my opinion which you did by blindly asserting I'm wrong and calling me names.

Your memory is faulty. There was much rational argument offered by myself and Prof D but you ignored it all.

The country's democratic decision, too early to say if there will chaos and hardship.

You're already trying to pass the buck.

The chaos is already with us. I don't know if you'd noticed but the financial sector is in turmoil and nobody from Leave has stepped up to the plate to tell us what the plan is.

[Nearly Sane]

Your memory is faulty. There was much rational argument offered by myself and Prof D but you ignored it all.
You're already trying to pass the buck.

The chaos is already with us. I don't know if you'd noticed but the financial sector is in turmoil and nobody from Leave has stepped up to the plate to tell us what the plan is.

There is no plan

https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=HNe-yHr7uJc

[Walt Zingmatilder]

In your opinion, my opinion dictates who I vote. You are free to offer arguments to change my opinion which you did by blindly asserting I'm wrong and calling me names.

Never said that.

The country's democratic decision, too early to say if there will chaos and hardship.

Oh if only you guys had owned up to the possibility of that sooner.
Also UKIP would have asked for another referendum, Farage is on record as suggesting it so your appeal to democratic decision is a bit hollow.

[Sebastian Toe]

Anyone up for a referendum to bring back hanging?

I wonder what the result would be?

[BeRational]

Anyone up for a referendum to bring back hanging?

I wonder what the result would be?

They would not dare!

[jakswan]

Your memory is faulty. There was much rational argument offered by myself and Prof D but you ignored it all.

No i told you why I didn't find those arguments convincing and offered counter arguments. You and Davey just seemed to get angry.

If the vote had been the other way I would have been disappointed but accept we live in a democracy and moved on. I fully accept your view and you wish to remain, I'm just suggesting you are more likely to get that result by not being dismissive and throwing insults at the 52%.

[jeremyp]

No i told you why I didn't find those arguments convincing and offered counter arguments. You and Davey just seemed to get angry.

No your counter arguments were faulty. Yes, we failed to convince you but the arguments we failed to convince you with were sound. Blame it on our communications skills or your intransigence: the arguments were correct.

If the vote had been the other way I would have been disappointed but accept we live in a democracy and moved on.

If the vote had been the other way, we would not now be drifting towards the rocks with nobody at the helm.

[jakswan]

No your counter arguments were faulty. Yes, we failed to convince you but the arguments we failed to convince you with were sound. Blame it on our communications skills or your intransigence: the arguments were correct.

The arguments failed to convince the electorate, blame them if you like but it achieves nothing. I don't really understand what you advocating for, pointless doing the debate over, its in the past now let it go.

If the vote had been the other way, we would not now be drifting towards the rocks with nobody at the helm.

Rhetoric.

[ProfessorDavey]

The arguments failed to convince the electorate, blame them if you like but it achieves nothing. I don't really understand what you advocating for, pointless doing the debate over, its in the past now let it go.

The debate still has a very, very long way to go. It most certainly isn't over.

[L.A.]

The arguments failed to convince the electorate, blame them if you like but it achieves nothing. I don't really understand what you advocating for, pointless doing the debate over, its in the past now let it go.

The arguments failed to convince, because the most of the media gave equal weight to outrageous lies as straightforward facts - even the BEEB utterly failed in this respect and some like the Express/Sun/Mail were guilty of gross distortion of the facts.

My wife used to work in the NHS and has a number of friends who still do - and they voted Leave because they actually believed that the NHS would get a giant slice of the £350 million per week!

I find it difficult to believe people can be so naive - but a lot are.

[jakswan]

The debate still has a very, very long way to go. It most certainly isn't over.

The debate of how to vote in the EU referendum 2016 is dead.

You might want to advocate for another referendum, renegotiation's (which you previously said were impossible and wouldn't argue for), for a Norway type deal, etc.

[ProfessorDavey]

The debate of how to vote in the EU referendum 2016 is dead.

But the next phase debate - namely what does Brexit actually look like, and do we have a positive mandate for that deal continues.

You might want to advocate for another referendum, renegotiation's (which you previously said were impossible and wouldn't argue for), for a Norway type deal, etc.

I'm not seeing any evidence that the EU is offering any change to the stated rules to keep us in. No sign of any concessions to prevent us leaving, which was what you claimed would be happening now if Leave one. I didn't think it would, because it would simply encourage others to threaten to jump ship if they felt they could cherry pick.

So actually what is happening from the EU side is exactly as I predicted.

[torridon]

The Leave camp had little to no detail on how a Brexit would look; over the coming months/years that picture is going to become clearer by which time the electorate will be better informed and more able to pass judgement on their options.  If it looks like we are going to be poorer as a nation, if it means decades of recession, if it means the departure of Scotland from the UK, then most people would vote Remain at that point. But if we have idealogues sold on Brexit running the country we probably won't be given a chance to have second thoughts on the matter.

[jakswan]

But the next phase debate - namely what does Brexit actually look like, and do we have a positive mandate for that deal continues.

A different debate though we seem to agree.

I'm not seeing any evidence that the EU is offering any change to the stated rules to keep us in. No sign of any concessions to prevent us leaving, which was what you claimed would be happening now if Leave one.

A lie please withdraw, to save you the effort i said if you want to stay in a reformed EU vote leave, it will offer reforms, if it doesn't it won't reform.

So with the debate over and your side losing what do you want to happen now?

[jeremyp]

Rhetoric.

So you think everything is going fine at the moment do you?

[ProfessorDavey]

A different debate though we seem to agree.

A part of the same debate albeit more focussed. What post Brexit looked like was a major component of the earlier debate, but in a kind of everything to everyone, hypothetical manner. Now it is for earnest

A lie please withdraw, to save you the effort i said if you want to stay in a reformed EU vote leave, it will offer reforms, if it doesn't it won't reform.

So with the debate over and your side losing what do you want to happen now?

Where did I say anything about a reformed EU - I don't believe the EU will reform merely to keep us there. However I think we may well (and should) have an opportunity to compare a real (not hypothetical) Brexit deal with the current (not reformed) EU and choose finally which we want to opt for.

[SusanDoris]

The arguments failed to convince, because the most of the media gave equal weight to outrageous lies as straightforward facts - even the BEEB utterly failed in this respect and some like the Express/Sun/Mail were guilty of gross distortion of the facts.

I think that's one of the things that annoyed me most, especially about that Chris Mason. One advantage of going off to  Australia on the 24th was that I didn't spend the next week thinking about it!

[Sassy]

How many people?

How many Emergency departments have been closed? How many immigrants came into the country? May be you choose to be blind to the truth but the truth doesn't go away.
In 2014 624,000 people immigrated to the UK in the year ending September 2014, do you think they never required medical attention or those others who came in any other year?
Do you not think that 624,000 people will not at some point require medical attention.

Believe me, the NHS is in far less danger from the EU than our own government. And if the Brexiters win and the government is taken over by rabid wing nuts like Michael Gove, it won't get any better.

Who exactly would have been representing us in the EU if not the same Government running our NHS?  Does Michael Gove really have such immense power that he can please himself?
You are imprisoned by your own imaginations and fears.

Also, if we throw out all the EU citizens using the NHS, they'll throw out all the British citizens using other EU health services and guess what? They cost more than the EU citizens here do.

How did we manage all those years on holiday using private healthcare. When did people not get medical attention in our Country before the EU?  NHS WAS free to everyone hence they all came and never paid.

You Brexiters really are totally clueless.

No! we live in the real world your the one making up stories and scaremongering without even a notion of the real truth.