Do you have any beliefs?

[L.A.]

I think on a philosophical level you could argue that our perception of the world is only made up of beliefs - we can never be 100% certain about anything.

[torridon]

What is the difference between a belief and a conclusion from evidence ?  A belief is personal, a conclusion from evidence is objective.  A belief is something we entertain, because, at some level, we like it, it appeals to us. I think we all entertain beliefs, they make up our unique personality.  I truly believe this 

[SusanDoris]

eh? Are you saying you have no beliefs in what you think is right or wrong?

I do not need to make up my own beliefs; the evidence of history and the knowledge we have about our evolution provide plenty of guidance on which to base my decision. Where there is blurring of what is right or wrong in a particular situation, then I'd make a decision on my and others' knowledge and experience and hope that it is the best one at the time.
One of what might be called the disadvantages of having a good memory is that I can all too easily recall the daft, wince-making things I have done in the past!     

[Rhiannon]

I think on a philosophical level you could argue that our perception of the world is only made up of beliefs - we can never be 100% certain about anything.

Well, yes, that was my point earlier. Everything's a judgement. I judge that's a chair and you would too, but only because we mostly agree what 'chair' is. But then we will have stories about the chair - comfy chair, ugly chair, chair that should be painted, chair that's special. Why isn't 'chair' just a story too? We can't know anything really, although to function I think we need to believe that we can.

We aren't our beliefs, but the space that holds them.

[ekim]

Perhaps there are a various shades of belief and that they are a subtle indication that the full truth is not known. If you know (e.g. in the present moment) then you don't need to hold a belief.  Other than that, the degree of belief tends to be an assessment of probability, often about the past or future.  Blind belief is where the critical faculties have been suspended, often as a result of earlier persuasion or indoctrination or through the need to satisfy a desire or mitigate a fear, sometimes the source of prejudices.  I seem to remember that an older meaning of 'belief' was more associated with love/life (lief).  'Belief in God' then became 'be love/life in God' ... a state of union or a unitive 'knowing'.

[Rhiannon]

I think a lot of life involves belief, or faith, not in anything supernatural but just in life itself. You know, 'I believe that this and this are worth doing.' Even when we can't predict the outcome.

[ekim]

Yes, it is often a subtle inference like 'I am going to Spain next week for a holiday' is really a belief in a probability rather than a 100% certainty.

[Rhiannon]

Absolutely. Byron Katie said to someone who told her that they had three months to live that that was amazing, because she couldn't be sure if she had three minutes.

And it's not just our physical reality. So much of what we do - relationships of any kind in particular - are leaps of faith. We don't know, but we trust.

[L.A.]

Yes, it is often a subtle inference like 'I am going to Spain next week for a holiday' is really a belief in a probability rather than a 100% certainty.

If French air traffic controllers have anything to do with it, the probability might be significantly lower.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I'm interested in the term I see a few atheists use.....''No reason to believe'' so their definition of belief is the important take on that term.

I take it belief is different from something demonstrated or demonstrable.

Also I think it is related to what the atheist actually believes or is prepared to.

[floo]

My belief is whilst it is just possible a deity could exist beyond our time and space, all religions, including Christianity, are human productions.

[splashscuba]

Do you have any beliefs?

That's beliefs as opposed to knowledge.

Lots

[SusanDoris]

Yes, it is often a subtle inference like 'I am going to Spain next week for a holiday' is really a belief in a probability rather than a 100% certainty.

Ah, yes, indeed! I believe I shall be flying to Australia for 10 days on 24 June, but at my age I have very good travel insurance - just incase, you know!!

[Maeght]

I'm interested in the term I see a few atheists use.....''No reason to believe'' so their definition of belief is the important take on that term.

I take it belief is different from something demonstrated or demonstrable.

Also I think it is related to what the atheist actually believes or is prepared to.

I suspect that there are a number of meanings to the phrase 'No reason to believe'. f I use it I would be referring to both my view that non of the evidence put forward to support the existence of God are convincing but also that I have never had any experiences which I have interpreted to be religious or indicative of a God existing.

[Nearly Sane]

I do not need to make up my own beliefs; the evidence of history and the knowledge we have about our evolution provide plenty of guidance on which to base my decision. Where there is blurring of what is right or wrong in a particular situation, then I'd make a decision on my and others' knowledge and experience and hope that it is the best one at the time.
One of what might be called the disadvantages of having a good memory is that I can all too easily recall the daft, wince-making things I have done in the past!   

This doesn't make any sense since in order to judge something as being something to do you have to have a standard by which to judge it. It seems that we are evolved to have wars, are they 'good' to you?

[SusanDoris]

Did anyone see any of the BBC 1 religious programme this morning on beliefs about the "end times"? I listened to the first few speakers, but then had to switch off, safe in the knowledge that there were various scientists waiting to state the scientific point of view.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I suspect that there are a number of meanings to the phrase 'No reason to believe'. f I use it I would be referring to both my view that non of the evidence put forward to support the existence of God are convincing but also that I have never had any experiences which I have interpreted to be religious or indicative of a God existing.

Interesting since I would say I vaguely detect in your reply a confusion between sorting out what one knows with what one believes.

There is a difference though IMV between evidence supporting the existence and religious experience since the latter is existential and the former mere information.

For me there are philosophical problems with moral relativism, scientism, naturalism and in atheism problems with focussing on utility rather than morality, ignorance of existential things, ignorance of questions of being and existence.......and then there is religious experience.

[Maeght]

Interesting since I would say I vaguely detect in your reply a confusion between sorting out what one knows with what one believes.

it is unlikely to be black and white, so probably not surprising.

There is a difference though IMV between evidence supporting the existence and religious experience since the latter is existential and the former mere information.

For me there are philosophical problems with moral relativism, scientism, naturalism and in atheism problems with focussing on utility rather than morality, ignorance of existential things, ignorance of questions of being and existence.......and then there is religious experience.

No idea what most of that means. Can you post it again without all the isms and philosophy language - then i might be able to comment.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

it is unlikely to be black and white, so probably not surprising.

No idea what most of that means. Can you post it again without all the isms and philosophy language - then i might be able to comment.

Ok. I dispute that there are no reasons to believe since there are philosophical arguments against what atheists tend to believe.

But I agree the religious have existential and experiential grounds for holding as true that which cannot be demonstrated (belief).

The atheist will place his grounds for belief (intellectual) above the existential because of what they value most.

However IMV the virtue of just holding intellectual beliefs is arbitrary and not easy to demonstrate.

[Maeght]

Ok. I dispute that there are no reasons to believe since there are philosophical arguments against what atheists tend to believe.

But I agree the religious have existential and experiential grounds for holding as true that which cannot be demonstrated (belief).

The atheist will place his grounds for belief (intellectual) above the existential because of what they value most.

However IMV the virtue of just holding intellectual beliefs is arbitrary and not easy to demonstrate.

Thanks - so I asked earlier, what do you think atheists believe?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Thanks - so I asked earlier, what do you think atheists believe?

OK, the primacy of empirical evidence, antipathy toward the existential, philosophical naturalism, philosophical materialism, scientism, agnosticism perhaps.

[Nearly Sane]

OK, the primacy of empirical evidence, antipathy toward the existential, philosophical naturalism, philosophical materialism, scientism, agnosticism perhaps.

House!

[bluehillside Retd.]

NS,

House!

Double house if you factor in too his personal definitions of some of these terms.

[Maeght]

OK, the primacy of empirical evidence, antipathy toward the existential, philosophical naturalism, philosophical materialism, scientism, agnosticism perhaps.

You know, for one moment I thought you might actually be interested in engaging in a staright forward, down to earth conversation without trotting out all the isms and terms which you seem to feel the need to use. But no .... a shame really.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You know, for one moment I thought you might actually be interested in engaging in a staright forward, down to earth conversation without trotting out all the isms and terms which you seem to feel the need to use. But no .... a shame really.

Well you did ask me what I thought atheists believed....sorry if you don't like the answer but it does rather mean youre like the man who sat on a radiator and complained that his arse was burning.