Gay club attacked in Florida

[Rhiannon]

Maybe the gay club was just a softer target?

He may have done a recce or two hence his being in the club at a previous time. He may also have been to Disney and decided against it. I would expect Disney have plans in place to deal with such an event where as the gay club would probably not.

I would have thought French football stadia would have plans in place given the high terror threat and the previous attack on the Stade de France, but Russian supporters got both flares and fireworks into the ground in Marseille.

I wouldn't be confident of anything, frankly.

[JP]

I'm just pondering.

If is shows me anything, it is that fixing your thinking at a moment in time is a bad thing.

I am sure it seemed a canny idea in post colonial USA, putting in the immutable constitution that owning a deadly fire arm would be a fine thing and that a 6th century desert dweller along with his God considers homosexuality a mortal sin worthy of death. Deadly combination

[Aruntraveller]

I don't know about Pat Robertsons comments but if you want something to really make you feel ill try this Baptist preacher:

http://www.out.com/news-opinion/2016/6/14/sacramento-baptist-preacher-applauds-shooting

[Rhiannon]

I don't know about Pat Robertsons comments but if you want something to really make you feel ill try this Baptist preacher:

http://www.out.com/news-opinion/2016/6/14/sacramento-baptist-preacher-applauds-shooting

And this is why I think the Orlando shootings were far more about homophobia than religion and attacking the States, for all the shooter swore allegiance to IS. That was the excuse, not the reason. There are too many in America who think like this, or who at least won't be as upset as had it been a mainstream club, for a gay club or event to be a logical target.

[Shaker]

It wasn't a gay club; it was a young person's club.

No, really: http://goo.gl/BiiloQ

[Hope]

It wasn't a gay club; it was a young person's club.

No, really: http://goo.gl/BiiloQ

I suppose, technically, he's right - after all, I don't think I've seen photos of anyone or anyone being interviewed being over 25.  However, ...

[Rhiannon]

I suppose, technically, he's right - after all, I don't think I've seen photos of anyone or anyone being interviewed being over 25.  However, ...

However what?

[Hope]

However what?

Look at mny post again, Rhi.  I intentionally used the words 'technically' and 'However' in juxtaposition.

[Shaker]

Anybody else know what he's on about? Anyone?

[Hope]

Anybody else know what he's on about? Anyone?

I've always wondered about your understanding of language, Shakes 

[Brownie]

Technically it could well have been described as a young person's club as it appeared to be populated by young people.   However in most quarters it was known as a gay club.
Conclusion:  a club, though not exclusively, for gay young people.

[Rhiannon]

Technically it could well have been described as a young person's club as it appeared to be populated by young people.   However in most quarters it was known as a gay club.
Conclusion:  a club, though not exclusively, for gay young people.

Which would be erroneous. It is a gay club. The oldest person to die was 50 and the average age of the victims was 29.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/12/orlando-nightclub-shooting-victims-what-we-know-so-far/

[Rhiannon]

I've always wondered about your understanding of language, Shakes 

I've always wondered how you misread the tone of what is appropriate on certain threads, but there we are.

[Shaker]

I've always wondered about your understanding of language, Shakes 

Given the state of what passes for your thinking, that doesn't surprise me in the least.

[Brownie]

Which would be erroneous. It is a gay club. The oldest person to die was 50 and the average age of the victims was 29.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/12/orlando-nightclub-shooting-victims-what-we-know-so-far/

Ah well, I tried.

[Rhiannon]

Ah well, I tried.

Tried what? To help Hope justify his technicality? Why?

[wigginhall]

It's bizarre and sick how some people are trying to avoid calling this a homophobic attack.  More erasure of the gay community, so it's an attack on Americans, or on young people, or on everyone, and so on.   I don't think Trump even mentioned gays, he was so full of his own self-praise.

[Rhiannon]

I don't get it. Yes, no gay club excludes straight people - I've been to gay clubs and my mother even more so, and not as a 'young person' either - but if you shoot up a gay club it's because you want to hurt the gay community.

Why deny that? Why are people so afraid to face up to the homophobia? Is it because they'd have to accept the role that Christisnity has played in fostering it?

[wigginhall]

I've heard gays use the word 'erasure' to describe this - how they are ignored in the media.   I think the Daily Mail put the shootings on page 4!

It's a dilute form of homophobia, I suspect, not actual anti-gay hatred, but preferring not to talk about gays really.   As for Welby, with his condolences, he can fuck off, until he reforms the C of E.

[Shaker]

It's bizarre and sick how some people are trying to avoid calling this a homophobic attack.  More erasure of the gay community, so it's an attack on Americans, or on young people, or on everyone, and so on.   I don't think Trump even mentioned gays, he was so full of his own self-praise.

It's the pachyderm in the lounge, isn't it.

The attack on a Jewish supermarket in Paris was an anti-Semitic hate crime; an attack on a gay club is about guns, about Islamic fundamentalism, but not, for some, about homophobia.

Very odd.

[Brownie]

For goodness sake, I was just trying to analyse what he said, what I thought he meant.  Nothing more, no justification. A purely academic exercise.  What on earth?

Edit:  I'm overreacting a bit, sorry.  I don't want to remove my post cos that's a bit cowardly.  Let's just carry on.

[Owlswing]

Anybody else know what he's on about? Anyone?

Yeah he made a shit statement and is trying to wipe his arse!

[Bubbles]

I don't know about Pat Robertsons comments but if you want something to really make you feel ill try this Baptist preacher:

http://www.out.com/news-opinion/2016/6/14/sacramento-baptist-preacher-applauds-shooting

pedolphiles?

Where did he get that?

There are some seriously nasty people calling themselves pastors 

I wouldn't give him the time of day.

Talk about bearing false witness.

 

[Sassy]

If this attack were simply about hurting America the gunman would have street yes a mainstream club. The atmosphere in the States is still anti gay enough for the followers of the likes of Pat Robertson to think that on some level God wants this and the killer would have known that. The gunman deliberately hit a gay club. because if his hatred for the LGBT+ community, and quite possibly of what he was himself.

From what I read, Pat Robertson was merely pointing out it was targeted because of the gay people.
He did not from what I read make it about God punishing gays. He was clear that Islam condemned the gay community and that the religion demands they be put to death. However they are not in an Islamic Country and those people were not Muslims but they thought they had the right in the USA to kill them. Well the one person did.

So Pat Robertson made the same comment had it been a nightclub just any old nightclub the attack might not have happened.
He isn't targeting the gay community he is saying it happened because the gay community had their own night club and therefore presented itself as a target for such people of such faiths who believe they are doing Gods will in killing them.

Not a Christian action to kill gay people and not one that Pat Robertson would ever support.
But he was trying to point out it happened simply because the people there were gay and the Islamic faith does not accept it.

Pat Robertson was NOT commending it or supporting the attack. He merely explained why it happened.
If America like other countries allow such people to live in their countries then the 9/11 and other incidents including this one are going to happen. It is too late to show concern having allowed them in to commit the atrocities.

No one should fear being killed in their own Country because people from religions which support terrorist have been allowed into their country.

If we allow them in, they we are equally responsible for the actions being allowed to happen.
Donald Trump was clumsy in that he was basically saying he would put a stop to the USA attacks by not allowing them in.
Protection not racism or anti-religion. Just wanting to keep his Country and the people safe.

[floo]

Robertson and Trump come out of the same evil extremist mould!