Author Topic: Gay club attacked in Florida  (Read 24815 times)

Bubbles

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Re: Gay club attacked in Florida
« Reply #50 on: June 13, 2016, 04:11:14 PM »
  Where does he play down the Paris attacks? He's accused of it incorrectly by the presenter and points out that he didn't say that.

Don't you agree that if it had been an attack on a synagogue there would have been no questioning if a Jewish journalists had said it was anti Semitic?


He didn't realise the impression he had created.

I can see I'm not mistaken by the way the news team reacted.

What he thought he was saying isn't what he actually said.


Nearly Sane

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Re: Gay club attacked in Florida
« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2016, 04:11:25 PM »
Gah poor pedantry on my part then. :)

JHB on the Sky News thing.
http://talkradio.co.uk/highlights/julia-hartley-brewer-speaks-out-about-twitter-abuse-after-owen-jones-debate-1606131595

Owen Jones has spoken out against the attacks on JHB. Almost any discussion on Twitter can contain this sort of unplesantness

Aruntraveller

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Re: Gay club attacked in Florida
« Reply #52 on: June 13, 2016, 04:11:57 PM »
You are not getting it Rose.

There was a misrepresentation of his position and a lack of acknowledgement certainly on the part of the presenter that this was an attack specifically targeted at LBGTI people.

In a comparable situation with Jews or Black people - there would not have been the hedging of well they're "human beings". OF course they are that's a fucking given.

They would have said it was anti-Semitic or racist. That's the difference.

Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Gay club attacked in Florida
« Reply #53 on: June 13, 2016, 04:13:25 PM »

He didn't realise the impression he had created.

I can see I'm not mistaken by the way the news team reacted.

Would he have 'created that impression' if he had been a Jewish journalist calling an attack on a synagogue anti Semitic.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Gay club attacked in Florida
« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2016, 04:16:45 PM »

Where do you get your information about it? Are you sure it's not biased?

I obviously don't visit the same web sites as you.

They have ranges and support safety (just like they do in the uk.)

https://home.nra.org

I don't think you know very much about it.
How on earth is that relevant to my post that said
Quote
I am unaware of what % of the mass shootings carried out are members of the NRA - are you? And you should note that Shaker didn't say they had carried out the shootings, so unsure what your point is?

Which makes no claim to knowledge but asks you if you have any, and points out that Shaker didn't make the statement you have taken him to task for?
You appear not to get logic


Bubbles

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Re: Gay club attacked in Florida
« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2016, 04:18:13 PM »
You are not getting it Rose.

There was a misrepresentation of his position and a lack of acknowledgement certainly on the part of the presenter that this was an attack specifically targeted at LBGTI people.

In a comparable situation with Jews or Black people - there would not have been the hedging of well they're "human beings". OF course they are that's a fucking given.

They would have said it was anti-Semitic or racist. That's the difference.

Yes it was aimed at those people because of their perceived sexuality.

i don't think anyone doubts that.

A white slave suffers just as much as a black one, but you try telling people that.

It's politically incorrect to point it out.




Owlswing

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Re: Gay club attacked in Florida
« Reply #56 on: June 13, 2016, 04:20:34 PM »
Weren't you the one pulling up people for tarring the police with that brush, something that didn't actually do? Hypocrite and a bigot.

I know more decent coppers, who work hard do their job and DON'T fuck up than do!

I have yet to meet a decent Yank who is NOT a witch!
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Nearly Sane

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Re: Gay club attacked in Florida
« Reply #57 on: June 13, 2016, 04:21:17 PM »
Yes it was aimed at those people because of their perceived sexuality.

i don't think anyone doubts that.

A white slave suffers just as much as a black one, but you try telling people that.

It's politically incorrect to point it out.

Then why would calling it an attack on LGBT people be somehow saying it was worse than Paris? Again, if a Jewish journalist called an attack on a synagogue anti Semitic would it be a claim about the attck being worse?

Aruntraveller

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Re: Gay club attacked in Florida
« Reply #58 on: June 13, 2016, 04:24:01 PM »
Quote
i don't think anyone doubts that

Well the presenter certainly did.

Quote
Host Mark Longhurst interjected and said the crime had been carried out against “human beings” who were “ trying to enjoy themselves, whatever their sexuality."

Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Gay club attacked in Florida
« Reply #59 on: June 13, 2016, 04:24:14 PM »
I know more decent coppers, who work hard do their job and DON'T fuck up than do!

I have yet to meet a decent Yank who is NOT a witch!

You think it's ok for you  to express your opinion of US citizens and  ignore anyone who might have different experiences. But you think that people should listen to you about policemen and quite possibly ignore their own - It's a hypocritical position

Owlswing

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Re: Gay club attacked in Florida
« Reply #60 on: June 13, 2016, 04:26:26 PM »
Then why would calling it an attack on LGBT people be somehow saying it was worse than Paris? Again, if a Jewish journalist called an attack on a synagogue anti Semitic would it be a claim about the attck being worse?

Your comments are rapidly making you look, to me, very anti-gay!

The man who did it, even his father defends him as being incensed by a gay kiss he saw in public! If that is NOT an anti-gay attack for fuck's sake tell me what the bloody hell it was or S T F U!
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Aruntraveller

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Re: Gay club attacked in Florida
« Reply #61 on: June 13, 2016, 04:27:35 PM »
Your comments are rapidly making you look, to me, very anti-gay!

The man who did it, even his father defends him as being incensed by a gay kiss he saw in public! If that is NOT an anti-gay attack for fuck's sake tell me what the bloody hell it was or S T F U!

I don't think you are reading NS's posts correctly.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Gay club attacked in Florida
« Reply #62 on: June 13, 2016, 04:29:30 PM »
Your comments are rapidly making you look, to me, very anti-gay!

The man who did it, even his father defends him as being incensed by a gay kiss he saw in public! If that is NOT an anti-gay attack for fuck's sake tell me what the bloody hell it was or S T F U!

That's what I've been saying. I've been exactly defending Owen Jones' comments that it was an attack on LGBT people and that he was right to say it. Maybe you need to reread the posts.

Owlswing

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Re: Gay club attacked in Florida
« Reply #63 on: June 13, 2016, 04:29:39 PM »

You think it's ok for you  to express your opinion of US citizens and  ignore anyone who might have different experiences. But you think that people should listen to you about policemen and quite possibly ignore their own - It's a hypocritical position


Keep on, keep on, another blinkered liberal!

As shown on a wall poster once - I am trying very hard to see you point of view but I really cannot get my head as far up my own arse as yours iappear to be able to get yours up you!
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Nearly Sane

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Re: Gay club attacked in Florida
« Reply #64 on: June 13, 2016, 04:31:14 PM »
Keep on, keep on, another blinkered liberal!

As shown on a wall poster once - I am trying very hard to see you point of view but I really cannot get my head as far up my own arse as yours iappear to be able to get yours up you!
And more bigotry to add your hypocrisy

Aruntraveller

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Re: Gay club attacked in Florida
« Reply #65 on: June 13, 2016, 04:32:49 PM »
Wanders off muttering can you be a blinkered liberal and anti-gay.....................
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Owlswing

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Re: Gay club attacked in Florida
« Reply #66 on: June 13, 2016, 04:54:09 PM »

Whatever! I will be in Old Compton Street at 1900 tonight as will my daughter for te two minutes silence . . .

and will, for NS, probably a collection of bent coppers trying to find someone to arrest for nothing!
The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Nearly Sane

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Re: Gay club attacked in Florida
« Reply #67 on: June 13, 2016, 05:09:44 PM »
Whatever! I will be in Old Compton Street at 1900 tonight as will my daughter for te two minutes silence . . .

and will, for NS, probably a collection of bent coppers trying to find someone to arrest for nothing!
My thoughts will be with you.

jakswan

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Re: Gay club attacked in Florida
« Reply #68 on: June 13, 2016, 05:27:42 PM »
I think it was more (a) the constant questioning about whether this was both a terrorist attack and a specific attack on LGBT people as per his comments that an attack in a synagogue would be immediately called out as anti semitic, (b) the idea that he has somehow suggested tgis was worse than the Paris attacks which was untrue, and (c) the emotion he was feeling. I don't think it was the best way to handle it but I could see why he got annoyed with the idea that is wasn't somehow a deliberate attack on LGBT people which the presenter continued with.

(a) I don't agree listen to the longer version (link below), Owen Jones was pushing back when the interviewer said 'this is an attack against all people who are free to live their lives', Owen Jones then said 'you don't understand this because you are not gay', that is quite fucking insulting to me.

(b) Who suggested he thought this was worse than Paris?

(c) He was emotional, we all are.

Here is a longer version:-
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmMXxx-EWcY
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Gay club attacked in Florida
« Reply #69 on: June 13, 2016, 05:45:49 PM »
(a) I don't agree listen to the longer version (link below), Owen Jones was pushing back when the interviewer said 'this is an attack against all people who are free to live their lives', Owen Jones then said 'you don't understand this because you are not gay', that is quite fucking insulting to me.

(b) Who suggested he thought this was worse than Paris?

(c) He was emotional, we all are.

Here is a longer version:-
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmMXxx-EWcY


I had watched the longer version, it's why I thought he had a point. The presenter continually questions if if it is was an attack.
I don't think say yo can't understand because you are not gay was a great statement to make at the time but in some sense it's valid. If you are part of a group that is targeted then I suggest the meaning to you will be different if you are not. Again the very conversation would never have happened if a Jewish journalist had pointed out that an attack on a synagogue was anti Semitic.

The presenter suggests that Jones is suggesting that the attack is somehow worse than Paris, which he denies. Watch it again


A number of my friends today have been in tears because of this, because of the implied threat to them, to the places they have felt safe, I am not so effected and in part that's because i'm not a member of the LGBT community, merely a supporter, and if one of them were to explain that by saying I can't understand exactly how they feel because i'm not gay, I wouldn't be poncing about feeling 'fucking insulted. I would just see what I could do.

Rhiannon

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Re: Gay club attacked in Florida
« Reply #70 on: June 13, 2016, 06:29:32 PM »
I agree very much, NS. We still live in a society where there isn't full equality for the LGBT community and for as long as that is the case there will be those who feel that legitimises prejudice and even violence. Straight people don't know what it's like to have grown up in a world where our relationships couldn't be marriages until very recently and that's a huge message that society has been sending out.

Bubbles

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Re: Gay club attacked in Florida
« Reply #71 on: June 13, 2016, 06:36:17 PM »
(a) I don't agree listen to the longer version (link below), Owen Jones was pushing back when the interviewer said 'this is an attack against all people who are free to live their lives', Owen Jones then said 'you don't understand this because you are not gay', that is quite fucking insulting to me.

(b) Who suggested he thought this was worse than Paris?

(c) He was emotional, we all are.

Here is a longer version:-
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmMXxx-EWcY

Yes, I think it is an attack on people who are free to live their lives in the way they see fit.

Yes these were gay, but the bigger picture is that by attacking gay people they are attacking us non gay people as well.

They object to all of us, and our lives and freedoms.

Even just a woman's freedom to be independant, to talk to who she chooses and go to things she wants to go to.

It's putting attacks of this sort into perspective, he took it the wrong way.

It isn't lessening the attack on gay people. It's pointing out it's an attack on all of us, gay and straight.


Being gay or straight, doesn't matter in the sense it's an attack on our freedoms to be ourselves.




Nearly Sane

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Re: Gay club attacked in Florida
« Reply #72 on: June 13, 2016, 06:39:57 PM »
Attended the vigil in Glasgow. As always such things have elements of bathos, lighting candles difficult in wind, megaphones working intermittently but a very calm determination to stand together, not to hate (not even the pillock playing a radio loudly to exercise his free speech).


Pe

Nearly Sane

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Re: Gay club attacked in Florida
« Reply #73 on: June 13, 2016, 06:54:11 PM »
Yes, I think it is an attack on people who are free to live their lives in the way they see fit.

Yes these were gay, but the bigger picture is that by attacking gay people they are attacking us non gay people as well.

They object to all of us, and our lives and freedoms.

Even just a woman's freedom to be independant, to talk to who she chooses and go to things she wants to go to.

It's putting attacks of this sort into perspective, he took it the wrong way.

It isn't lessening the attack on gay people. It's pointing out it's an attack on all of us, gay and straight.


Being gay or straight, doesn't matter in the sense it's an attack on our freedoms to be ourselves.

And again had a Jewish journalist stated an attack on a synagogue was anti Semitic would you be saying he wasn't seeing the 'big picture'?

Bubbles

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Re: Gay club attacked in Florida
« Reply #74 on: June 13, 2016, 07:14:47 PM »
And again had a Jewish journalist stated an attack on a synagogue was anti Semitic would you be saying he wasn't seeing the 'big picture'?

If there was a bigger picture, yes.

No one is saying it wasn't an attack on gay people. 

Islamic terrorists attack anyone different who have freedoms they don't think they should have or believe something they think wrong.

They don't attack gay people in isolation, they attack anyone who they consider an outsider who doesn't live by their laws.

They don't attack Jews in isolation either.

Or Christians.

Most of the terrorists appear to be anti women, anti Jewish, anti Christian, anti ( insert any religion other than their brand of Islam) anti western society, anti trade, anti commercialism, anti music, anti pictures.

In fact they seem to be anti Muslim if another Muslim tries to build bridges with " the infidels"

If you stand back and look ...... They are anti just about everything.......

They are a pain in the arse.

Hence the reporters talking about the bigger picture.

Turning around and saying someone can't understand because they arn't gay is rude and untrue.

It's called empathy, and it's insulting to imply someone cannot understand it, they can.

Someone can understand what it must have been like to be a slave, you don't have to be black. Some black people use that argument too, that white people don't understand what being a slave was like or the concept of prejudice against black people.

All too often that one is used to create divisions instead of building bridges.

He insulted people by turning round and telling them they couldn't understand because they weren't gay.

That's bollocks!

Yes you can understand what's it's like to be disapproved of and not recognised to be in fear of being bullied and picked on.


It's called empathy.

It would be better if there was more empathy with people who are gay, not less.

If people who arn't gay can't understand anyway, what's the point?

Where was he going with that one?






« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 07:37:03 PM by Rose »