Gay club attacked in Florida

[jakswan]

I had watched the longer version, it's why I thought he had a point. The presenter continually questions if if it is was an attack.

No the presenter said 'this is an attack against human beings... against people  .... as Bataclan was'.

I don't think say yo can't understand because you are not gay was a great statement to make at the time but in some sense it's valid.

I never said it wasn't valid I said it was fucking insulting.

If you are part of a group that is targeted then I suggest the meaning to you will be different if you are not. Again the very conversation would never have happened if a Jewish journalist had pointed out that an attack on a synagogue was anti Semitic.

The whole thing because Owen Jones wanted the correct label applied, a homophobic attack, which I think it was. They were debating if this was another attack by Islamic extremists which it also might be. Owen Jones didn't like that so he had a tantrum.

The presenter suggests that Jones is suggesting that the attack is somehow worse than Paris, which he denies. Watch it again.

What time in the video was this?

A number of my friends today have been in tears because of this, because of the implied threat to them, to the places they have felt safe, I am not so effected and in part that's because i'm not a member of the LGBT community, merely a supporter, and if one of them were to explain that by saying I can't understand exactly how they feel because i'm not gay, I wouldn't be poncing about feeling 'fucking insulted. I would just see what I could do.

I've been in tears over this I challenge anyone not to be, seeing the families hearing the news of their loved ones would fill anyone with despair. Anyone who attends a pride marches or gay club is going to feel threatened.

The only one poncing about has been Owen Jones. 

[Bubbles]

The text sent to the mother by her son trapped in the toilets was just tragic, very sad.

That must have been so awful, to be helpless, like that.

 

I felt very sad when I read that.

 


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3637576/Terrified-text-son-sent-mother-Orlando-terror-unfolded.html

[Bubbles]

Lots of straight people go to gay clubs too.

My son does, he reckons it's a great nightclub.

As far as I know he's not gay, but he has no issue with gay people.

That message could just have easily have come from my son, I empathise with that mother.

Gay people have many connections mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers etc.

Any of those people gay or straight can empathise with the victims and their families.

IMO most people can empathise from one angle or another.


Which in part is what makes that comment about non gays not understanding, insulting.

All those victims had families and friends

[Rhiannon]

I'm not gay, and I don't find it insulting.

[Bubbles]

The Soho vigil was attended by the new London mayor, Sadiq Khan.
Hundreds of people have gathered in Old Compton Street, at the heart of London's gay community, where the Admiral Duncan pub is located. Three people were killed and many more injured in a nailbomb attack on the gay pub in 1999.
The BBC's Rebecca Café, who is in Soho, says it is a subdued scene.
"Those gathered here say they are nervous, particularly as the annual Pride in London event is only a couple of weeks away, but they are determined to stand in unity," she said.
The vigil has been organised by the group London Stands With Orlando, whose description of the Soho vigil is, "London's gay village joins hands to honour victims of Pulse shooting".
It wrote on its Facebook page: "This evening's commemorative event is open to everybody, from all walks of life. We will stand together in solidarity against all who fight against the principles of peace, equality and liberty."
Vigils were also held in Birmingham, Manchester, Brighton, Leeds and Nottingham, with more planned in the coming weeks.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36520754

[Rhiannon]

And?

I still don't know what it's like to be a part of a community that has been so marginalised it needs its own clubs in order to feel safe when going out openly for the night.

[Bubbles]

And?

I still don't know what it's like to be a part of a community that has been so marginalised it needs its own clubs in order to feel safe when going out openly for the night.

I can't argue with that, if you say so Rhiannon.

It's how you feel about it.

Not everyone else has to feel the same way.

[Bubbles]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/13/orlando-shooting-isil-wages-war-on-gays-in-the-west-after-omar-m/

One moment the father of the killer is saying it has nothing to do with religion and the next all this comes out.

[Rhiannon]

I can't argue with that, if you say so Rhiannon.

It's how you feel about it.

Not everyone else has to feel the same way.

Well it's not my say so; I'm not gay, so it's a fact.

And Owen Jones can think differently from you and from the Sky News presenters then. And say so out loud.

[Bubbles]

One gay mans view on it

http://www.vox.com/2016/6/12/11914186/orlando-florida-shooting-gay-muslims-islam

[Bubbles]

Well it's not my say so; I'm not gay, so it's a fact.

And Owen Jones can think differently from you and from the Sky News presenters then. And say so out loud.

Is that a problem for you?

Different POV.

What's a fact? That you' re not gay?

[Rhiannon]

Is that a problem for you?

Different POV.

Of course not.

It was for you back up the thread though.

[Bubbles]

Of course not.

It was for you back up the thread though.

No, just didn't agree with what he said and how he behaved.

Just because the man is gay doesn't mean he is always right.

Other opinions from gay men are around if you look.

I posted a link further up, to one sensible one.

[Rhiannon]

No, just didn't agree with what he said and how he behaved.

Just because the man is gay doesn't mean he is always right.

Other opinions from gay men are around if you look.

I posted a link further up, to one sensible one.

And this is you not having a problem?

Where did I say we should agree with him simply because of his sexuality?

[Bubbles]

And?

I still don't know what it's like to be a part of a community that has been so marginalised it needs its own clubs in order to feel safe when going out openly for the night.

Not all straight people cannot connect with how it must be to be gay.

http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/straight-man-moved-tears-he-learns-why-being-gay-not-choice100914/#gs.Vjo87iA

But if you don't know, then you don't know.

Like I said, I can't tell you what you can and cannot know. Your feelings are your own.

The guy in the video seems to be able to put himself in that position.

Enough to show his feelings anyway.

[jakswan]

Well it's not my say so; I'm not gay, so it's a fact.

And Owen Jones can think differently from you and from the Sky News presenters then. And say so out loud.

No one has said he can't, I've always admired Owen Jones, I disagree with his politics but he's very articulate, intelligent man, just baffled the way in which he reacted.

This is a diversion perhaps I'm overreacting as well because I just feel its such a terrible waste of life.

[Brownie]

There's no doubt this was a specific attack on gay people but the bigger picture is that it affects non-gay people too because gays have friends and relations who are not gay, who will be horrified and grief stricken.   It affects all of us whatever our sexuality because terrorists will home in on any group.  In this case, a lone gunman, like Breivik in Norway.

Reporting can sometimes be clumsy, I doubt any offence was intended.

[Rhiannon]

No one has said he can't, I've always admired Owen Jones, I disagree with his politics but he's very articulate, intelligent man, just baffled the way in which he reacted.

This is a diversion perhaps I'm overreacting as well because I just feel its such a terrible waste of life.

It's very raw. I don't think it's baffling; Trent gave a good link earlier from Pride that put it very well. That doesn't mean he was right to react as he did, just that it's understandable.

The suffering caused scarcely bears thinking about. The waste of life, yes, and families and loved ones changed forever.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

These guys hate everyone and anyone and no one in particular.

So sad.
So many young people.

[Rhiannon]

These guys hate everyone and anyone and no one in particular.

So sad.
So many young people.

Agreed. So many valuable people full stop. 

[Bubbles]

There are some very heartless people about.

http://thoughtcatalog.com/jacob-geers/2016/06/here-are-all-the-people-applauding-the-orlando-gay-club-shooter/

Scary really.

How callous people can be.

 

[Shaker]

What the NRA has to say for itself: http://goo.gl/bu19c3

[Owlswing]

An emotional, inspiring, thoughtful and memorable evening spent in a packed to capacity Old Compton Street, every kind from City gents and a lady in a coat that probably cost more than a house to punks, and bkiers. All gay? Who knows, no-one asked.

No names, lots of tears, lots of hugs.

I feel proud and honoured to have been a part of it - a memory that will, for all there I hope, last at least as long as the pain.

Looking forward to Trafalgar Square June 25.

[Owlswing]

Separately to the above, for obvious reasons and for NS and Trent I can in all honesty say that, at the age of 70 and quite by accident I have met four really nice Americans, three lesbians and a gentleman from Austin, Texas who, after the vigil, shared a few glasses of mead with my daughter and me and with whom we had a long discussion on the differences btween the way thge British and the Americans treat their gay communities.

[Bubbles]

What the NRA has to say for itself: http://goo.gl/bu19c3

Actually it really isn't, it's just some biased web site you've dug up.
Stop blaming them for some other unconnected persons actions.