MP shot and stabbed

[Nearly Sane]

So if it is a Muslim committing an atrocity it = Radicalisation by Islam

If it's a white guy it = mental health issues.

Don't you just love the consistency of approach.

Surely this cuts both ways here?

I see a lot of people who say don't sterotype Muslims, happy to do it for the right wing here.

[Nearly Sane]

Exactly, I'm not sure what your point is.

I have certainly encountered characters, generally in dark corners of pubs, with extreme views and no obvious signs of sanity. Generally they are harmless, but wind them up and give them a gun - and I wouldn't like to be around.

The point is that simply rushing to the judgment that this is all caused by the rhetoric from BREXIT on immigration is a shiny mirror of irony.

[Brownie]

I wasn't trying to lighten the atmosphere in a 'silly' way, but thought some might be interested in the wider picture.  Regarding the issue of security, there was an immediate reaction to eurity following the attack on Stephen Timms, and he wondered whether this might lead to more stringent security.

I do see that security on a houseboat would be more difficult than a house or flat, Hope, and get your point.  I hadn't thought of that (neither did I think you were trying to lighten the atmosphere, just didn't understand the relevance).  However the houseboat is in London, not her constituency, so she'd have had a lower profile there.  It's a thought though.

[Nearly Sane]

I am having an interesting discussion elsewhere on this where I was raising my frequently made point that because of social media we get to see the characters from the dark corners of pubs much more because of social media, and the point was raised that it's exactly because of that that we need to try and control our rhetoric more so than before. This seems a valid point and isn't about censorship, rather about recognising that the method of communicating has changed in such a way that we need to be more careful with it, I'm not sure of the solution.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Rhiannon,

My thoughts and prayers are with Jo Cox's family.

Who to blame, who is at fault for this terrible tragedy, who's fault is it that a man was so disturbed he resorted to this kind of violence, do we blame the overstretched NHS for not treating this poor individual properly, well no, not the NHS fault that our NHS is overstretched by an influx of foriegners, how dare these foreigners use our our NHS.

Do I blame the rise of so called far right groups, why have we got far right groups, what are they protesting about, oh right!! the influx of foreigners eroding our oh so British ways.

Do I blame the millions that are saying to our government, enough is enough, never mind immigrants, what about us, are they right, has the government let them down.

Do I blame the politicians, Jo Cox was a politician, the way this EU referendum farce has been conducted by both sides of the divide, are they at fault.

Do I blame Blair, his jump to go to war, without a thought for the consequences.

Do I blame Islam, that terrible religion which has seen its birth place raped and destroyed by the west.

Just where do I point the finger, well I have to agree with our Prime Minister "we are all in it together".

Gonnagle.

[L.A.]

The point is that simply rushing to the judgment that this is all caused by the rhetoric from BREXIT on immigration is a shiny mirror of irony.

There is a lot of hatred being 'preached' right now, so it seems likely that there is a connection.

[Nearly Sane]

There is a lot of hatred being 'preached' right now, so it seems likely that there is a connection.

At any one time on the internet there seems to be lots of hatred being preached and we seem to have a tendency to always seek to portary the other side as the more hateful, which has its irony. As jakswan has already noted, the constant use of racist to describe peple qiestioing immigration is not conducive to polite discussion, And as Gonzo has raised a loy of the rhetoric of hate had been by politicians on both sides. Rather than immeditely blaming the other side, perhaps we need to reflect on our actions.

[Rhiannon]

I am having an interesting discussion elsewhere on this where I was raising my frequently made point that because of social media we get to see the characters from the dark corners of pubs much more because of social media, and the point was raised that it's exactly because of that that we need to try and control our rhetoric more so than before. This seems a valid point and isn't about censorship, rather about recognising that the method of communicating has changed in such a way that we need to be more careful with it, I'm not sure of the solution.

And in the web even the darkest of characters say things out loud that they wouldn't in the pub.

[L.A.]

At any one time on the internet there seems to be lots of hatred being preached and we seem to have a tendency to always seek to portary the other side as the more hateful, which has its irony. As jakswan has already noted, the constant use of racist to describe peple qiestioing immigration is not conducive to polite discussion, And as Gonzo has raised a loy of the rhetoric of hate had been by politicians on both sides. Rather than immeditely blaming the other side, perhaps we need to reflect on our actions.

I don't think this person engaged in a murderous attack because he was offended by suggestions that he might be a racist. I think it is more likely that he actually believed he was attacking an 'enemy' - someone who threatened Britain by allowing in" hordes of foreigners" possibly?

[Nearly Sane]

I don't think this person engaged in a murderous attack because he was offended by suggestions that he might be a racist. I think it is more likely that he actually believed he was attacking an 'enemy' - someone who threatened Britain by allowing in" hordes of foreigners" possibly?

I didn't suggest such a thing. Rather that we complain about the 'other sides' use of rhetoric while indulging in the same thing and that each sides use of rhetoric has an impact on the tone.

I've just read a set of tweets from someone who went to a Trump rally which has a host of very frightening stuff about what was said but finishes with one saying ' Trump's candidacy is a virus and must be wiped out'.

[floo]

I think Trump should be prosecuted for racist hate speech.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Forum,

Sorry!! But stating the bleedin! obvious, both tragedies, Birstall, Florida, committed by mentally unstable men, the good people of Florida had a small outlet for their grieving, they could give blood, what can we do, us, Brits, Scots, English, Welsh, Irish, SNP, Liberal, Tory, Labour, hell even the UKIP, write to your MP, what ever the flavour, more funding for the NHS, we did have a drive earlier in the year focusing on mental health, put it back on the agenda, make it your politicians highest priority.

Tell them to shut the F*** up about immigration, tell them to shut their gobs about the EU.

https://www.writetothem.com/

Above is the one I have used.

Gonnagle.

[jakswan]

Tell them to shut the F*** up about immigration, tell them to shut their gobs about the EU.

In other words 'me, I'm the sane one, all the ills of the world are the other side, shut them down they are to blame, my views are best'', a point made whilst a family grieves.

We definitely get the politicians we deserve.

[Nearly Sane]

In other words 'me, I'm the sane one, all the ills of the world are the other side, shut them down they are to blame, my views are best'', a point made whilst a family grieves.

We definitely get the politicians we deserve.

. I don't read Gonnagle's comments in that way. I don't think he is making that comment against one side.

[Hope]

The point is that simply rushing to the judgment that this is all caused by the rhetoric from BREXIT on immigration is a shiny mirror of irony.

I notice that referendum campaigning has been halted till tomorrow morning.  I wonder whether it is tame that the two sides say 'enough is enough' and simply shut up till next Thursday evening.  After all, the BBC and, I believe, other media have got their 'Reality Check' websites that folk can look at and study.  Furthermore, the campaigning has effectively been going on since before the General Election last year.  Is there really anything that can be said that hasn't been said before?

[Jack Knave]

This stupid referendum is not worth anyone's life.

Except this referendum is about the EU which has murdered thousands. The Greece suicidal rate has shot up; all in the name of the bankers.

I saw her on the Daily Politics and she was a 'no-bollocks' politician and that is someone you can always admire even if you don't always agree with what she said.

[Jack Knave]

And it would be neither feasible nor sensible to cancel the referendum. Apart from anything else it would create a precedent capable of being used by any random nutter to halt any votes they think are going the wrong way

Perhaps he was working for the EU? Or even worse brainwashed by the EU CIA style to do the dirty deed.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Sane,

It doesn't matter, a young lady is dead, a mother, a wife, I did something practical this morning, I can now read about the lady, I can watch the video's of her.

I now feel less helpless about this tragedy, Jakswan, Jack knave, hell even Sass can now make their points, hell again, I can agree with some of their points, it doesn't change the fact, a young lady is dead because someone was mentally unstable, I did a small thing, it helps me.

Gonnagle.

[Jack Knave]

Yeah, but this is David Icke 'prince Charles is an alien' territory. One person one vote sounds great til you realise this lot will be included.

I think you are missing the issue with this line of argument. If it is the rhetoric of the referendum that caused him to do this then it is the crap and outrages lies from the Remain lot that prompted him to act.

[Rhiannon]

Am I the only one worried about the 'crazed mentally ill' headlines we're seeing? Let's not scapegoat Brexit, let's scapegoat the mentally ill instead.

[jakswan]

Dear Sane,

It doesn't matter, a young lady is dead, a mother, a wife, I did something practical this morning, I can now read about the lady, I can watch the video's of her.

I now feel less helpless about this tragedy, Jakswan, Jack knave, hell even Sass can now make their points, hell again, I can agree with some of their points, it doesn't change the fact, a young lady is dead because someone was mentally unstable, I did a small thing, it helps me.

Gonnagle.

Sass is a Christian she has nothing whatsoever in common with me. Why am I in a list with jack knave? Are you trying to make this some way abourt Brexit, please stop lets just take day off.

[Jack Knave]

I think that you are wrong. This murder will not be forgotten. It is not just another random tragedy.

It strikes at the heart of our democratic process. It is using violence to achieve a political end - even though it may involve just some deranged individual it is mimicking what some of us see happening in the USA. It is an affront to our political ideals as well as a personal tragedy.

And it happened because a second-rate prime minister had serious party management problems ...  The rancour, distortions and appalling behaviour that this referendum has created have all damaged the public face of political life - perhaps seriously. But that this should lead to the murder of a Member of Parliament who was just doing her normal activities as an elected representative is an unspeakable degradation of democracy

And the EU is as good as gold is it? Talk about being democratic!!?!?!?!

The referendum is democratic and decades over due.

[Brownie]

Agreed Rhiannon.  He may well have been deranged and certainly a fanatic but it does sort of tar all people with mental health problems, the overwhelming majority of whom are quite safe and law abiding.  Very unfair.  However that will die down when more facts come to light (we hope).

[Gonnagle]

Dear Jakswan,

Agreed.

Gonnagle.

[Gordon]

Moderator:

Please note that posts from an identically named thread in 'Politics' have been merged into this thread.