Tim Peake

[ippy]

Obviously a very active and intelligent person, said I have to say for the first time from space, "god save the Queen"?

I couldn't believe my ears, someone of his standing making himself sound rather foolish, so wet, it just doesn't sit with all of the things he has so obviously achieved?

ippy 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Obviously a very active and intelligent person, said I have to say for the first time from space, "god save the Queen"?

I couldn't believe my ears, someone of his standing making himself sound rather foolish, so wet, it just doesn't sit with all of the things he has so obviously achieved?

ippy

I'm reminded of the Russian cosmonaut who said that he couldn't see God when he was in space.

God save the queen is one of those things which make us British.... I would expect nothing less of Major Peake than to toast the queen in space.

Gentlemen....The Queen!

[Rhiannon]

Given that I've achieved jack compared to Tim Peake I'm not really in a position to judge him.

[L.A.]

Just a shame he didn't give us a Bowie track like Hatfield did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaOC9danxNo

[Brownie]

Given that I've achieved jack compared to Tim Peake I'm not really in a position to judge him.

Me too Rhiannon (even if I had forgotten who he was - I remember him now of course).

What on earth is wrong with saying, "God save the Queen", unless it is the "God" bit that some object to, in which case, "Long live the Queen", or "Well done Queenie", would be suitable alternatives.
Even if a person is not a royalist, and I am not really, the Queen is a remarkable woman and has done very well so far, continues to do so too.
A very British remark as someone said earlier.

[ippy]

Me too Rhiannon (even if I had forgotten who he was - I remember him now of course).

What on earth is wrong with saying, "God save the Queen", unless it is the "God" bit that some object to, in which case, "Long live the Queen", or "Well done Queenie", would be suitable alternatives.
Even if a person is not a royalist, and I am not really, the Queen is a remarkable woman and has done very well so far, continues to do so too.
A very British remark as someone said earlier.

So it doesn't make you wonder why someone with all of those qualifications and  highly intelligent couldn't think of something better to say than something so ridiculous, meaningless and wet  "god save the queen", where do people get these odd ideas from?

My wife commented that it looks like he's nailed himself an honour of some sort by saying that, sounds about right to me.

It's sheer luck this particular queen is someone doing a good job of head of state, nothing else.

ippy 

[ippy]

I'm reminded of the Russian cosmonaut who said that he couldn't see God when he was in space.

God save the queen is one of those things which make us British.... I would expect nothing less of Major Peake than to toast the queen in space.

Gentlemen....The Queen!

Prat.

ippy

[Hope]

Obviously a very active and intelligent person, said I have to say for the first time from space, "god save the Queen"?

I couldn't believe my ears, someone of his standing making himself sound rather foolish, so wet, it just doesn't sit with all of the things he has so obviously achieved?

ippy

Many very active and intelligent people believe in both the monarchy and God, ippy.  Perhaps you need to accept that intelligence can accept the existence of such a being.

[Hope]

Prat.

ippy

When I first read this post, I thought it was a response to one of your posts, ippy.   

[Shaker]

Given that I've achieved jack compared to Tim Peake I'm not really in a position to judge him.

But then perhaps you've achieved other things, different things, compared to Peaky.

[Shaker]

Many very active and intelligent people believe in both the monarchy and God, ippy.  Perhaps you need to accept that intelligence can accept the existence of such a being.

Very little to do with intelligence, I'd have thought.

[Brownie]

I don't understand why you are so cross about it, Ippy.  No-one is suggesting you say it.  Tim Peake possibly made the remark because someone reminded him about the Queen's 90th birthday, that's just a thought.  Bit cynical to say he is angling for an honour.   Why should there ever be resentment about someone else receiving a compliment or a positive word?  It doesn't take anything away from anyone else and sounds rather mean spirited.

Fast forward a few years and he might not have said the same!  However, the performance of any other monarch, before and after her time, is not relevant to how anyone feels about the present queen and, from what I have been told and read, her parents did a pretty good job and were popular.

[Hope]

Very little to do with intelligence, I'd have thought.

Shaker, I'd agree, but ippy seems not to agree.  After all, there are both 'intelligent' and 'non-intelligent' people (whatever those labels might mean) who believe in God and there are similar people who don't. 

[Shaker]

Intelligence - or rather a lack thereof - would presumably come into play if you're not aware that a particular belief rests upon faulty reasoning, that's to say, fallacious arguments.

Even more so if you're unable or unwilling to accept correction from others even when it's explained to you (repeatedly, from multiple sources) why you're wrong.

[Brownie]

I doubt Tim Peake thought about what he said in such an analytical way, it was a remark, nothing more  .

Edit:  From this Mail article I have just found (& there are others), it seems he said this back in January.  He is an army officer and the armed forces officially serve the Queen (whether people like the idea or not), so it isn't surprising.   I think she sent him good wishes, etc.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3384739/A-message-Astronaut-Tim-Peake-person-say-God-save-Queen-monarch-space.html

[Hope]

Intelligence - or rather a lack thereof - would presumably come into play if you're not aware that a particular belief rests upon faulty reasoning, that's to say, fallacious arguments.

Are you suggesting that those highly intelligent scientists and scholars who also have a faith are schizophrenic in some way?  Could it be that the fallacious arguments are those emanating from your side of the debate because of the inability of the intelligentsia on that side to understand that aspects of life that they take as read are beyond logic and reason?

Even more so if you're unable or unwilling to accept correction from others even when it's explained to you (repeatedly, from multiple sources) why you're wrong.

Sorry, Shaker, but in 50-odd years of taking part in this particular debate, I have yet to come across an explanation of that sort that holds water.  In fact, I haven't heard any explanation that hasn't been posited over the years and centuries, and that hasn't had at least one flaw. 

[Shaker]

Are you suggesting that those highly intelligent scientists and scholars who also have a faith are schizophrenic in some way?

Obviously you're using that term wrongly. All too common, alas.

If by 'schizophrenic' you mean a sort of split mind, then yes, absolutely. George Orwell did us a service in giving us the term doublethink to label the phenomenon.

Could it be that the fallacious arguments are those emanating from your side of the debate because of the inability of the intelligentsia on that side to understand that aspects of life that they take as read are beyond logic and reason?

No.

A logical fallacy is a logical fallacy. There are those who understand what they are and for that reason don't use them; those who don't understand what they are and use them accordingly; and possibly those who understand what they are but simply don't care and use them regardless, for whatever reason. (Pride, perhaps). Many here fall into the first category; you fall into one or the other of the latter two.

Sorry, Shaker, but in 50-odd years of taking part in this particular debate, I have yet to come across an explanation of that sort that holds water.  In fact, I haven't heard any explanation that hasn't been posited over the years and centuries, and that hasn't had at least one flaw.

The fact that your would-be arguments are still stiff with logical fallacies even after all this time tells us that there's a very great deal indeed that you've missed.

[ippy]

Many very active and intelligent people believe in both the monarchy and God, ippy.  Perhaps you need to accept that intelligence can accept the existence of such a being.

Hope it looks to me you may have missed something said in my post, like I said, "doesn't it make you wonder why someone with all of those qualifications and highly intelligent think of something better to say" and I also said", where do people get these odd ideas from.

it reminds me of good old Duggie's saying:

“I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting. But it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously.”

Like most terms used in psychology they keep on changing them, terms such as schizophrenia in past times indicated some kind of a split personality, using this now rather dated description I would definitely agree when someone is obviously highly intelligent and a god/royalist type person there has to be some sort of while I'm in god mode I have to shut down rationality mode, followed by when in rationality/mode I'll have to put the god/queenie bit to one side. 

But there you are that's what I said I've hopefully clarified it for you, Hope, but there misinterpret away as you wish, you usually do.

ippy
 

[ippy]

I don't understand why you are so cross about it, Ippy.  No-one is suggesting you say it.  Tim Peake possibly made the remark because someone reminded him about the Queen's 90th birthday, that's just a thought.  Bit cynical to say he is angling for an honour.   Why should there ever be resentment about someone else receiving a compliment or a positive word?  It doesn't take anything away from anyone else and sounds rather mean spirited.

Fast forward a few years and he might not have said the same!  However, the performance of any other monarch, before and after her time, is not relevant to how anyone feels about the present queen and, from what I have been told and read, her parents did a pretty good job and were popular.

Hi Brownie, not cross I just find these kind of irrational remarks tiresome, my wife added the fishing for honours remark, which it could be.

You, might have guessed I'm a republican and don't really go with the present honours system, the system  , many people do merit some form of recognition, of course and that is something that there should be, nor do I grudge these things to deserving cases.

Not cross just something I'm being serious about, have a good day brownie, I wish you well.

ippy

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Intelligence - or rather a lack thereof - would presumably come into play if you're not aware that a particular belief rests upon faulty reasoning, that's to say, fallacious arguments.

Let's see your working out?

[Hope]

Hi Brownie, not cross I just find these kind of irrational remarks tiresome, my wife added the fishing for honours remark, which it could be.

ippy, I would suggest that Tim Peake is too intelligent to even consider fishing for compliments, let alone for an honour.  After all, these things are decided upon many weeks in advance of the public announcement, not just days.  At the same time, could you point out the 'irrational remarks' as you call them.

You, might have guessed I'm a republican and don't really go with the present honours system, the system  , many people do merit some form of recognition, of course and that is something that there should be, nor do I grudge these things to deserving cases.

If I remember correctly, some 80% of recent honours have gone to folk few, if any of us have ever heard of, simply because they have been nominated by members of their own local or special interest communities.  How would you publically recognise these people's acheivements?

[Hope]

Hope it looks to me you may have missed something said in my post, like I said, "doesn't it make you wonder why someone with all of those qualifications and highly intelligent think of something better to say" and I also said", where do people get these odd ideas from.

I saw those comments alright, and thought I'd responded to them, as well as others.  If anything, he was simply being  well mannered.  After all, one tends to regard a 90-year old with respect - whoever they are.

it reminds me of good old Duggie's saying:

“I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting. But it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously.”

Possibly because of their being intelligent, ippy. 

Like most terms used in psychology they keep on changing them, terms such as schizophrenia in past times indicated some kind of a split personality, using this now rather dated description I would definitely agree when someone is obviously highly intelligent and a god/royalist type person there has to be some sort of while I'm in god mode I have to shut down rationality mode, followed by when in rationality/mode I'll have to put the god/queenie bit to one side. 

Do you have any evidence to support this suggestion, ippy?

But there you are that's what I said I've hopefully clarified it for you, Hope, but there misinterpret away as you wish, you usually do.

ippy

The nearest to clarification, that I can see, is that you don't seem to regard good manners to be worthwhile, you believe that both the monarchy and deity are outmoded concepts that need to be replaced by models of humanity who are no less flawed than what you're trying to get rid of (a seemingly pointless activity, in my eyes, as the democracy card so loved by some here is clearly a non-starter in the former concept) and an assumption that 'True' intellegence can only allow for the non-existence and non relevance of a deity and the monarchy respectively.

[Harrowby Hall]

But Tim Peake has received an honour in the Queen's Birthday list.

I think that you are being too critical, analytical, of what was probably a casual comment designed to reflect his own nationality in the presence of Russians and Americans.

I think that this discussion - on both sides - is pointless.

[Brownie]

I agree HH.  I've just seen Tim Peake on the news and I'm sure he'd be amazed at having caused such controversy, albeit in a very small corner, by his remarks.

[ippy]

I agree HH.  I've just seen Tim Peake on the news and I'm sure he'd be amazed at having caused such controversy, albeit in a very small corner, by his remarks.

What controversy Brownie?

ippy