Author Topic: Tim Peake  (Read 6063 times)

ippy

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Re: Tim Peake
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2016, 09:43:52 AM »
I saw those comments alright, and thought I'd responded to them, as well as others.  If anything, he was simply being  well mannered.  After all, one tends to regard a 90-year old with respect - whoever they are.
Possibly because of their being intelligent, ippy. 
Do you have any evidence to support this suggestion, ippy?
The nearest to clarification, that I can see, is that you don't seem to regard good manners to be worthwhile, you believe that both the monarchy and deity are outmoded concepts that need to be replaced by models of humanity who are no less flawed than what you're trying to get rid of (a seemingly pointless activity, in my eyes, as the democracy card so loved by some here is clearly a non-starter in the former concept) and an assumption that 'True' intellegence can only allow for the non-existence and non relevance of a deity and the monarchy respectively.


True to form Hope, mis description of things you don't want to understand spiced with a pinch of N P F.

ippy.

Brownie

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Re: Tim Peake
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2016, 09:49:53 AM »
I looked up NPF and it seems to mean something to do with Paint balling,  firewall and the National Policy Forum of the British Labour Party.  Please enlighten me Ipster, good morning to you on this rainy day.
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: Tim Peake
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2016, 10:24:07 AM »
I looked up NPF and it seems to mean something to do with Paint balling,  firewall and the National Policy Forum of the British Labour Party.  Please enlighten me Ipster, good morning to you on this rainy day.

I think that it's some secret code they put in their love letters to each other.
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Brownie

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Re: Tim Peake
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2016, 10:32:04 AM »
Oh right, thanks HH, I won't pry any further. ;)
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ippy

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Re: Tim Peake
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2016, 11:51:01 AM »
Oh right, thanks HH, I won't pry any further. ;)

Hope's Negative Proof Fallacy, he wants others to prove his idea, that god or gods really do exist, for him, whereas the onus is on those with outlandish ideas to substantiate their outlandish ideas. 

Have a look at his posts, he either refuses to get it or can't get it, I suspect it doesn't fit with his take on and about religious beliefs.

Most of Hope's posts end up like this where there's a relatively casual remark made about, in this case Tim's rather soppy wet sounding reference to Betty and saving her, into international crisis proportions.

My original post stood alone it didn't need Hope's misinterpretation, but there, that's how he is.

ippy 

Brownie

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Re: Tim Peake
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2016, 12:30:25 PM »
Such a casual remark that an entire thread was started on the strength of it, ippy (I worked out the negative proof fallacy bit).
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Hope

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Re: Tim Peake
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2016, 04:09:54 PM »
Hope's Negative Proof Fallacy, ...
Something that ippy and others seem very knowledgeable about, suggesting that they have practised it on a number of occasions.

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Have a look at his posts, he either refuses to get it or can't get it, I suspect it doesn't fit with his take on and about religious beliefs.
If you were to read those same posts, ippy, you'd appreciate that I'm challenging folk like yourself to provide evidence for your claims.

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Most of Hope's posts end up like this where there's a relatively casual remark made about, in this case Tim's rather soppy wet sounding reference to Betty and saving her, into international crisis proportions.
By the time I made my first intervention, the 'relatively casual remark' had been queried and challenged by 3 or 4 other posters, suggesting that my views aren't unique.

My original post stood alone it didn't need Hope's misinterpretation, but there, that's how he is.
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Gordon

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Re: Tim Peake
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2016, 04:47:02 PM »
Something that ippy and others seem very knowledgeable about, suggesting that they have practised it on a number of occasions.

Nope - you are the main purveyor of the NPF, to the point of wearing it out.

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If you were to read those same posts, ippy, you'd appreciate that I'm challenging folk like yourself to provide evidence for your claims.

Nope - you are inviting us to commit the NPF so as to disprove your claims: most of us here aren't naive enough to fall for that. The burden of proof is yours, and we await detail of the methodology you use to support your claims.

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By the time I made my first intervention, the 'relatively casual remark' had been queried and challenged by 3 or 4 other posters, suggesting that my views aren't unique.

On that at least you are correct: there seem to be other credulous theists in addition to yourself.


ippy

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Re: Tim Peake
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2016, 04:50:24 PM »
Something that ippy and others seem very knowledgeable about, suggesting that they have practised it on a number of occasions.
If you were to read those same posts, ippy, you'd appreciate that I'm challenging folk like yourself to provide evidence for your claims.
By the time I made my first intervention, the 'relatively casual remark' had been queried and challenged by 3 or 4 other posters, suggesting that my views aren't unique.

My original post stood alone it didn't need Hope's misinterpretation, but there, that's how he is.

You're unbelievabl Hope, in the end you should have N P F marked on your gravestone.

ippy

Hope

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Re: Tim Peake
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2016, 05:31:19 PM »
You're unbelievabl Hope, in the end you should have N P F marked on your gravestone.

ippy
I probably will have it on my head stone (if I'm buried, as opposed to crenmated and ashes scattered, of course): I've long been a supporter of National Parks.   ;)

The interesting hing is that you and others often state things in response to posts that I and others make.  Often those statements are not supported by any evidence, or are clearly statements of opinion.  I do find it amusing that the NPF 'fallacy' is often raised in such cases in order to avoid the question.  Oh, by the way, I've referred to 'fallacy' twice in the previous sentence on purpose.
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ippy

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Re: Tim Peake
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2016, 05:43:34 PM »
I probably will have it on my head stone (if I'm buried, as opposed to crenmated and ashes scattered, of course): I've long been a supporter of National Parks.   ;)

The interesting hing is that you and others often state things in response to posts that I and others make.  Often those statements are not supported by any evidence, or are clearly statements of opinion.  I do find it amusing that the NPF 'fallacy' is often raised in such cases in order to avoid the question.  Oh, by the way, I've referred to 'fallacy' twice in the previous sentence on purpose.

The great unanswered question is?

ippy

Gordon

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Re: Tim Peake
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2016, 05:57:32 PM »
I do find it amusing that the NPF 'fallacy' is often raised in such cases in order to avoid the question. 

That is no doubt because you don't understand it, since if you did you wouldn't keep using it.

Hope

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Re: Tim Peake
« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2016, 06:00:51 PM »
The great unanswered question is?

ippy
OK, one 'unanswered question is 'On what do you base your confidence in science in all aspects of life?'.  Another would be 'In what way would a political president (ie one elected from a slate chosen by the political parties - a la the USA or France) actually improve the democratic nature of the country?'  If the US is anything to go by, the  democratic process could be being stalled and blocked on a number of occasions every year or two.
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Hope

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Re: Tim Peake
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2016, 06:02:33 PM »
That is no doubt because you don't understand it, since if you did you wouldn't keep using it.
No Gordon, I find it funny because I knew exactly what it is long before I ever joined this board and all too often it is used as a means to avoid answering perfectly valid challenges to opinions and so-called 'facts'.
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Gordon

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Re: Tim Peake
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2016, 06:24:25 PM »
No Gordon, I find it funny because I knew exactly what it is long before I ever joined this board and all too often it is used as a means to avoid answering perfectly valid challenges to opinions and so-called 'facts'.

Nope, as has been pointed out to you numerous times by numerous posters you keep making the same reasoning errors and as we have seen on another thread this evening you don't really understand research methods or statistics either.

Shaker

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Re: Tim Peake
« Reply #40 on: June 20, 2016, 06:44:56 PM »
No Gordon, I find it funny because I knew exactly what it is long before I ever joined this board

Or so you claim, along with much beside. Such as - to pick but one example out of very very many - your assertion that I have used the NPF more than you have. (As though that were even possible!). I don't recall the evidence for that being any more forthcoming than for any of the innumerable other assertions you've wheeled out.

This being so, why do you continue to use it so regularly?*

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all too often it is used as a means to avoid answering perfectly valid challenges to opinions and so-called 'facts'.
No, it's people pointing out that your reasoning powers are defective, which clearly you dislike because you crash on regardless and continue to make the same error as though you've never been corrected. Nelson's Eye, Beethoven's Ear - it's ever the same.

* A representative sample: http://goo.gl/TX9rBo

"It's not that I descend into fallacies ..."  ;D
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 07:24:33 PM by Shaker »
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ippy

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Re: Tim Peake
« Reply #41 on: June 20, 2016, 07:27:15 PM »
OK, one 'unanswered question is 'On what do you base your confidence in science in all aspects of life?'.  Another would be 'In what way would a political president (ie one elected from a slate chosen by the political parties - a la the USA or France) actually improve the democratic nature of the country?'  If the US is anything to go by, the  democratic process could be being stalled and blocked on a number of occasions every year or two.

Couldn't be easier Hope, I base my confidence on tried and tested systems that keep progressing toward more and more tried and tested evidence, I can't remember hearing anything about revealed science or anything equally as silly and pointless as revelation science.

The question is how do you or anyone else justify a heriditary system as fair play for all, Thomas Paine made a good assesment of this royals anarchism when he said, "why don't we have heriditary mathematicians".

I have no bone with any of them just the system that allows this to continue.

Having said that about the so called royals, none of that opinion of mine campares with your total blindness or refusal to let yourself see the error in your N P F question you keep putting out on the forum, surly you must realise how daft it makes you look, I'm certain you're not that daft, so what is it? Why?

Ippy

« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 08:27:32 PM by ippy »

Shaker

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Re: Tim Peake
« Reply #42 on: June 20, 2016, 07:32:47 PM »
The question is how do you or anyone else justify a heriditary system as fair play for all, Thomas Paine made a good assesment of this royals anarchism when he said, "why don't we have heriditary mathematicians".
Tony Benn once asked who would get on a plane if you were told that the bloke up front has absolutely no flying experience whatsoever, but it's OK, his dad has :)
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Having said that about the so called royals, none of that opinion of mine campares with your total blindness or refusal to let yourself see the error in your N P F question you keep putting out on the forum, surly you must realise how daft it makes you look, I'certain you're not that daft, so what is it? Why?
Something very odd at work here, ipster.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

ippy

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Re: Tim Peake
« Reply #43 on: June 20, 2016, 08:57:20 PM »
Tony Benn once asked who would get on a plane if you were told that the bloke up front has absolutely no flying experience whatsoever, but it's OK, his dad has :)Something very odd at work here, ipster.

It's very odd, odd's the word; we all have our differences but this continual digging up of this stupid N P F reply to anything he apparently doesn't like, I still don't see Hope as a complete bufoon, it puzzles me Shakes?

ippy


Hope

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Re: Tim Peake
« Reply #44 on: June 21, 2016, 07:27:15 AM »
Couldn't be easier Hope, I base my confidence on tried and tested systems that keep progressing toward more and more tried and tested evidence, I can't remember hearing anything about revealed science or anything equally as silly and pointless as revelation science.
And which are often shown to be erroneous - either because of human error or because of human lack of understanding.  It is amazing how many processes that have been part and parcel of life over the years - despite being queried and challenged by many people (including non-scientists and other 'ordinary' people) are only now being looked at by scientists who have realised the truth of these challenges.

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The question is how do you or anyone else justify a heriditary system as fair play for all, Thomas Paine made a good assesment of this royals anarchism when he said, "why don't we have heriditary mathematicians".
Whilst I'm not a monarchist, I'm not a republican.  After all, we often do have a form of hereditary-ness in that children will often follow in the footsteps of their parents - be that in things they volunteer for, work as or even support in other ways.

However, my main concern with some republican approaches is that the electoral system often stymies democracy as opposed to improving it.  For instance, my experience of American politics is that progress in vital areas - such as healthcare and gun control is all too often stalled by the intervention of powerful - and often undemocratic - lobbying groups, and/or the way in which Presidents and the Senate/Congress ften cancel each other out meaning that something that gets through Congress often doesn't get through the Senate.

Whilst I've never actually researched this, I suspect that this system has killed off more legisative business than our unelected House of Lords has ever done, which more often than not improves, rather than kills off, legislation.

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Having said that about the so called royals, none of that opinion of mine campares with your total blindness or refusal to let yourself see the error in your N P F question you keep putting out on the forum, surly you must realise how daft it makes you look, I'm certain you're not that daft, so what is it? Why?
As I mentioned to Gordon, I've known about the NPF for far longer than I've been a member of this board, and I have a pretty good understanding of what it means.

The reason I  "keep putting" what you call the N P F question out on the forum is that you and others regularly make statements here.  Statements are, by their very nature, meant to be authoritative and factual - yet often these statements are neither authoritative or factual.  They are often based on personal and sometimes organisational opinion.

For instance, the assumption by many here that only ideas and concepts that can be proven by scientific investigation are valid.  Do you actually have any evidence that that is the case?  If you have, perhaps you could provide that evidence since no-one has ever managed to do so in all the years that I and others I know hae asked that question.  Do you have any evidence to show that only science can answer the questions and problems humanity faces?
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Étienne d'Angleterre

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Re: Tim Peake
« Reply #45 on: June 21, 2016, 07:59:34 AM »
For instance, the assumption by many here that only ideas and concepts that can be proven by scientific investigation are valid. 

Name names.

Gordon

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Re: Tim Peake
« Reply #46 on: June 21, 2016, 08:00:11 AM »

For instance, the assumption by many here that only ideas and concepts that can be proven by scientific investigation are valid.

Then you'll have an alternative method to hand: which is what exactly?

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Do you have any evidence to show that only science can answer the questions and problems humanity faces?

Straw man: a number of us have said that we await details of your alternative to science and we haven't set constraints on what you might present.

After all, if you are able to claim that there are identifiable 'questions and problems' that are somehow outwith the scope of science then you must already have a method to allow you to identify these 'questions and problems' in the first place and then show how their characteristics are unsuited to scientific investigation.

So, you need to let us in on the secret method!   

Harrowby Hall

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Re: Tim Peake
« Reply #47 on: June 21, 2016, 08:30:38 AM »

However, my main concern with some republican approaches is that the electoral system often stymies democracy as opposed to improving it.  For instance, my experience of American politics is that progress in vital areas - such as healthcare and gun control is all too often stalled by the intervention of powerful - and often undemocratic - lobbying groups, and/or the way in which Presidents and the Senate/Congress ften cancel each other out meaning that something that gets through Congress often doesn't get through the Senate.


Inaccurate and inappropriate analysis.

What does the damage in the USA is party politics in an environment (similar to the UK) in which there are two dominant parties and a first-past-the-post voting system.

In addition, you appear to assume that since the USA chooses to have an executive president the United Republic of Great Britain should have one, too. Why not take Germany as your model instead?
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Hope

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Re: Tim Peake
« Reply #48 on: June 21, 2016, 10:25:17 AM »
Inaccurate and inappropriate analysis.

What does the damage in the USA is party politics in an environment (similar to the UK) in which there are two dominant parties and a first-past-the-post voting system.

In addition, you appear to assume that since the USA chooses to have an executive president the United Republic of Great Britain should have one, too. Why not take Germany as your model instead?
If wer did go down that route, brilliant - but I haven't heard many Republicans I know use that model.  Almost all have used the US model.
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ippy

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Re: Tim Peake
« Reply #49 on: June 22, 2016, 10:42:12 PM »
I'm of the school of thought that things like the the way the House of Lords is populated and the hereditary royal system we have here in the U K are not a right and proper way to appoint these people; on saying that I have very little to offer on ideas of how to replace the H of L's, other than the obvious need to chuck out the bishops.

The royal system needs to go, there has to be a better system than the present one, choosing a head of state should be in some way based on merit; it's luck and only by chance, luck our present head of state, is a cracker, but it doesn't make sense to rely on luck for such an important appointment.

I feel sure that ridding ourselves of royals can be a far easier job to do than finding a better way of appointing those we have in the second house.

Ippy





 
« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 10:56:54 AM by ippy »