Why is Satan the bad guy?

[floo]

deleted

[Udayana]

Well, probably the "baddie" overcame and usurped the role of the "goody" and is pretending to be god whilst the real one is left lurking around the shadows.

We will find out all in the next installment/episode unless the series has been canned

[wigginhall]

Job is interesting as here, Satan is God's little helper, and works as a kind of hitman.   Probably a very old text, and showing some interesting views of Satan as someone testing the faithful, on God's behalf.   These ideas often erased by later Christians. 

[Maeght]

I just don't understand why Satan is supposed to be a baddie, but the Biblical god all that is good? The deeds attributed to god are highly unpleasant to say the least, and indicate the entity is very deranged. Although poor Satan is always slagged off, no actual misdeeds have been attributed to him.

Do you expect a sensible answer and a genuine discussion when you suggest God is deranged in your OP? Or is it just another opportunity for you to say that sort of thing?

[floo]

Do you expect a sensible answer and a genuine discussion when you suggest God is deranged in your OP? Or is it just another opportunity for you to say that sort of thing?

Well do the deeds attributed to the god of the Bible indicate an entity who is sane?

[Spud]

One idea is that Satan, an angel, was to be Adam and Eve's tutor in the Garden, in the same way that the Angel of Yahweh helped Israel. Instead he tricked them into disobeying God. We are not told at what point he 'fell', just that sin was found in him. (See Ezekiel 28)

[trippymonkey]

You only need look at the Jewish Bible & the later, shall we say, RE-writes in the Christian Bible to see the vastly differing POV of Satan.

[Maeght]

Well do the deeds attributed to the god of the Bible indicate an entity who is sane?

You haven't answered my question.

[Hope]

I just don't understand why Satan is supposed to be a baddie, but the Biblical god all that is good? The deeds attributed to god are highly unpleasant to say the least, and indicate the entity is very deranged. Although poor Satan is always slagged off, no actual misdeeds have been attributed to him.

Floo, do you ever read posts that others make in answer to questions like this?  This must be the 2nd, perhaps even 3rd thread in which you've asked the same basic question - this year alone. 

If yu look at the etymology of the word, you will see that the term 'Satan' can't be anything other than the bad-guy.

proper name of the supreme evil spirit in Christianity, Old English Satan, from Late Latin Satan (in Vulgate in Old Testament only), from Greek Satanas, from Hebrew satan "adversary, one who plots against another," from satan "to show enmity to, oppose, plot against," from root s-t-n "one who opposes, obstructs, or acts as an adversary." ...

In biblical sources the Hebrew term the satan describes an adversarial role. It is not the name of a particular character. Although Hebrew storytellers as early as the sixth century B.C.E. occasionally introduced a supernatural character whom they called the satan, what they meant was any one of the angels sent by God for the specific purpose of blocking or obstructing human activity. [Elaine Pagels, "The Origin of Satan," 1995]

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?l=s&p=7&allowed_in_frame=0

Furthermore, and from the same source,

In Septuagint (Greek) usually translated as diabolos "slanderer," literally "one who throws (something) across" the path of another (see devil (n.)), though epiboulos "plotter" is used once.

In other words, Satan can, by very definition, be nothing other than an 'opponent' or 'obstructionist'.  That then can extend - again by definition - to 'destroyer'.

[Hope]

Well, probably the "baddie" overcame and usurped the role of the "goody" and is pretending to be god whilst the real one is left lurking around the shadows.

Interestingly, Udayana, that sums up the Jewish and Christian understanding pretty well.  It is in part why Satan is referred to as the 'prince of this world' and 'the ruler of the kingdom of the air' in John 12:31 and Ephesians 2:2 respectively.

[Udayana]

It's also a Gnostic idea.

[floo]

One idea is that Satan, an angel, was to be Adam and Eve's tutor in the Garden, in the same way that the Angel of Yahweh helped Israel. Instead he tricked them into disobeying God. We are not told at what point he 'fell', just that sin was found in him. (See Ezekiel 28)

If that was true, I back Satan all the way if it disobeyed the evil god.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

I just don't understand why Satan is supposed to be a baddie,

Because history is written by the winners.

[floo]

Because history is written by the winners.

Meaning?

[Dicky Underpants]

If that was true, I back Satan all the way if it disobeyed the evil god.

The view of Satan changes in the Bible, as does the view of God. As for the Garden of Eden story, there is no mention of Satan in it - only a 'subtle' talking snake.

Though the early view of God in the Bible may be seen as evil, I think you'd be hard pressed to designate all the recorded acts of Jesus (through whom God is supposed to have worked) as evil. Unless you think that healing the sick and preaching peace and love are evil things to be promoting.

As has been pointed out, it was the Christians who first came up with the idea of Satan as an evil, independent entity. There are no particular references to him being such in the Old Testament, except perhaps in the book of Zechariah (even the reference to him in Job, which wiggi has mentioned, promotes him as god's henchman - albeit the one who gets his hands dirty).

[Dicky Underpants]

It's also a Gnostic idea.

Well, the Ophite Gnostics gave their own slant on the Christian interpretation of the snake in the Garden of Eden, claiming that it was the spirit of truth and goodness which spoke through it, and that old Yahweh was the liar.

[trippymonkey]

Why do you think they 'used' Jesus' character to negate that awful creature of the OT.??

Few so-called pagan gods were so ruthless & nasty !?!?
We must also remember the Jewish has nothing like a Satan figure in it.

[Brownie]

Well, where there are two Jews, there are three opinions.

Those Jewish people who follow Kabbalistic teachings have similar beliefs to the Ophite Gnostics with regard to the serpent in Eden.

The Chassidics believe that Satan (which means prosecutor in Hebrew), does everything for the sake of Heaven.

[trippymonkey]

Excellent points !!!
From what I've read in & about Jewish literature they thought Satan could only do anything if he was 'allowed' by God !!!

Makes sense to me.

[Hope]

It's also a Gnostic idea.

Not sure that that is true; I understand it pre-dates Gnosticism, by about as long as much of the Hebrew Bible pre-dates Gnosticism.

[Hope]

If that was true, I back Satan all the way if it disobeyed the evil god.

Floo, all your references to the 'evil god' post-date the fall, at which point evil entered the world.  It would appear, however, that Satan's (Lucifer's) fall from grace predates the fall - is, in effect the catalyst for the fall.  Where is your evidence that God was in any way evil prior to the fall?

(edited for spelling!!)

[Hope]

Because history is written by the winners.

If that's the case, how would a nation/people group that was constantly harrassed and persecuted, and their successors - the early church - who also underwent harrassment and persecution, be writing history?

[Hope]

Excellent points !!!
From what I've read in & about Jewish literature they thought Satan could only do anything if he was 'allowed' by God !!!

Makes sense to me.

And a being that allows bad things to happen to people isn't necessarily evil.  I wonder how many of us here have allowed our children to take the consequences of their own actions, Floo, rather than protecting them.

[trippymonkey]

SUCCESSORS - EXCUSE ME ?!!?!?!?!?
I dare you to go to your local synagogue & tell them ALL this !?!?!? 

Anyway the ancient Israelites - Hebrews kept their writings to themselves so had complete control over who saw what, no?

Nick

[Hope]

SUCCESSORS - EXCUSE ME ?!!?!?!?!?
I dare you to go to your local synagogue & tell them ALL this !?!?!? 

Just because one group, be that religious or political, believe that they can't be superceded, it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen in practice. 

Anyway the ancient Israelites - Hebrews kept their writings to themselves so had complete control over who saw what, no?

Nick

If the Old Testament is to be believed, chunks of the Hebrew Scriptures ended up all over the Middle East - some of the Assyrian and other invading armies even quoted from them.