Why is Satan the bad guy?

[trippymonkey]

So stealing stuff is quite often happening eh?

[ippy]

Discussing Satan as though this thing Satan, whatever it's supposed to be, as though it's a part of reality is a good demonstration of how delusional the whole lot of religious believers are.

Yet another piece of head shakingly daft religious nonsense, "Satan"?

ippy

 

[floo]

Floo, all your references to the 'evil god' post-date the fall, at which point evil entered the world.  It would appear, however, that Satan's (Lucifer's) fall from grace predates the fall - is, in effect the catalyst for the fall.  Where is your evidence that God was in any way evil prior to the fall?

(edited for spelling!!)

As I have said many times, if god exists and was responsible for everything, including human nature, then it was either screwed up very badly, or more likely enjoys human suffering!

[Brownie]

Oy Mrs floo, you started this thread and both Hope and Maeght have replied and asked you a question, posts #7 & #8.  No point in starting a thread if you don't engage with the responses.

(You have also been asked a question a couple of times over on the Pistorius thread, which you didn't start.)

[jeremyp]

If that's the case, how would a nation/people group that was constantly harrassed and persecuted, and their successors - the early church - who also underwent harrassment and persecution, be writing history?

Christians won in the 4th century. Thus it is their history that survives.

[floo]

For those who have actually have actually read the Bible, surely they should be able to see the god depicted there is bonkers, unless they are wearing rose coloured specs!

[Brownie]

P l e a s e read the posts that you have encouraged by starting this thread, floo.

[floo]

Brownie, I have said my say!

[Brownie]

So you don't really want comments or even read them.  I give up.

[Maeght]

Brownie, I have said my say!

Which answers my question of course.

[Hope]

Brownie, I have said my say!

No you haven't, Floo.  I can guarentee that we wil at least one more thread from you on exactly this same topic this year, using very similar arguments to this one.

[Hope]

For those who have actually have actually read the Bible, surely they should be able to see the god depicted there is bonkers, unless they are wearing rose coloured specs!

Floo, I used to think the same as you do now when I was a teenager - but then realised that what I was looking through was a very heavily tinted pair of metaphorical specs.

[trippymonkey]

H
So how do you get round all the horrible things he did then??

Nick

[Hope]

Christians won in the 4th century. Thus it is their history that survives.

Yet what we have in the Bible - which is of course what survives - pre-dates that 'victory' by some 3 centuries.  At the same time, one can question whether having a Roman Empire absorb a religion like Christianity to sit alongside its existing thinking was even a victory.  Over the years, it became an ever-increasingly status belief  for many Romans.

[Brownie]

Floo, I used to think the same as you do now when I was a teenager - but then realised that what I was looking through was a very heavily tinted pair of metaphorical specs.

Through a glass darkly.
I've had a thought about the title of this thread, why do we think Satan is a guy?

[Hope]

H
So how do you get round all the horrible things he did then??

Nick

Nick, punishment is a perfectly normal and acceptable action - even today when so many seem to think that it cramps people's development.

It is also worth remembering that almost all the examples Floo has referenced in her regular forays into this subject are taken from a sizeable passage that even Jewish scholars have acknowledged over the years as having likely been written in the 5th century BC - so isn't historical in any sense at all, but has a theological tone to it. 

[trippymonkey]

OK
So how do you know what YOU believe is actually correct then?

[Spud]

We had a worldwide flood yesterday. It came right up to our front door

[BeRational]

We had a worldwide flood yesterday. It came right up to our front door

Not my door so not world-wide.

[ippy]

Through a glass darkly.
I've had a thought about the title of this thread, why do we think Satan is a guy?

I think about Satan Brownie, as yet another load of nonsense that religious lot have unfounded beliefs about.

Satan is about as real as Harry Potter, why can't you people see it ? There's no supporting evidence evidence for any of the magic, mystical and superstition based parts of any religion.

ippy

[jeremyp]

Yet what we have in the Bible - which is of course what survives - pre-dates that 'victory' by some 3 centuries.

Two centuries.

Also, we really don't have very much early Christian writing.

At the same time, one can question whether having a Roman Empire absorb a religion like Christianity to sit alongside its existing thinking was even a victory.  Over the years, it became an ever-increasingly status belief  for many Romans.

That's hardly a correct characterisation of what happened. It didn't really take very long for the Christians to oust all the other beliefs.

[Brownie]

I am not certain that I believe in Satan as a person ippy, the story is that he was a wondrous, glittering angel who fell from grace.  I see the image of Satan as the personification of evil.

Spud, we had near flood conditions here on the edge of SE London.  I live in a house on top of a hill which is very useful at times!  Seemed OK today though (or should I say "yesterday" as it is now early hours of Monday).

[floo]

Floo, I used to think the same as you do now when I was a teenager - but then realised that what I was looking through was a very heavily tinted pair of metaphorical specs.

When I was a teenager I thought like you do now, much to my shame, but now realise I was viewing it through rose coloured specs! 

[floo]

We had a worldwide flood yesterday. It came right up to our front door

Pants on fire!

[ippy]

I am not certain that I believe in Satan as a person ippy, the story is that he was a wondrous, glittering angel who fell from grace.  I see the image of Satan as the personification of evil.

Spud, we had near flood conditions here on the edge of SE London.  I live in a house on top of a hill which is very useful at times!  Seemed OK today though (or should I say "yesterday" as it is now early hours of Monday).

Poor you, how about Unicorns as well, you might just as well believe in Unicorns as well as Satan, it would make equally as much sense.

Why don't you just enjoy the reinforcement meetings and use your common sense and let them get on with the mythical, magic bits and just enjoy their company.

There's no such things as Devils or Satan; not one person has ever found any evidence that would or could support such a  silly idea, forget about it and get on with your life there's enough problems that get thrown up at all of us with just the ordinary things in life without manufacturing any more problems like devils and other such nonsense.

ippy