Why is Satan the bad guy?

[floo]

It plainly does. That does not override the appallingly bad descriptions of god which are there - mostly in the early part, and in Jesus' references to hell etc. . Both (and more) exist in this highly varied collection of texts.

And what does it say that is good about god?

[Dicky Underpants]

And what does it say that is good about god?

Apparently he gave certain commandments (even in Leviticus, the most boring book on earth) about not harassing foreigners when they're in your country. In Isaiah, we're told to look after poor widows etc. In Micah we're told to love mercy and do justly. And Jesus, as we know,  preached loved and forgiveness and non-violence. All these prophets believed they were speaking for God.

Perhaps you think we should all start killing immigrants, acting as unjustly as possible and hating everyone?

Why are you totally unable to look at these ancient texts as just that  - a collection of ancient writings with different thoughts on a variety of matters - as well as their representations of god?

[floo]

Apparently he gave certain commandments (even in Leviticus, the most boring book on earth) about not harassing foreigners when they're in your country. In Isaiah, we're told to look after poor widows etc. In Micah we're told to love mercy and do justly. And Jesus, as we know,  preached loved and forgiveness and non-violence. All these prophets believed they were speaking for God.

Perhaps you think we should all start killing immigrants, acting as unjustly as possible and hating everyone?

Why are you totally unable to look at these ancient texts as just that  - a collection of ancient writings with different thoughts on a variety of matters - as well as their representations of god?

Why should I think we should all start killing migrants, where the heck did you get that one from? I am one who sticks up for the migrants!

[Nearly Sane]

Why should I think we should all start killing migrants, where the heck did you get that one from? I am one who sticks up for the migrants!

No, Dicky is making the point that were to disagree with the examples he was giving where the Bible describes a good god then that would only make sense if you had morals opposite to those descriptions.

[wigginhall]

One of the striking messages in the Jewish Bible (OT) is that God wants mercy not sacrifice.   Some people see this as carrying on into the NT, well, maybe, but it's just part of the Jewish mosaic, which is of course, contradictory, as all good liberal rabbis will tell you.   

[Spud]

Put yourself in the place of a 6th century BC Israelite. He knows he has offended  the creator God by joining in with the new practice of burning incense to baal. The prophet has told him that God will come to punish them. The Babylonians are at the gates of the town and he is about to be captured or worse. The Babylonians have been sent by God to punish them. Yet this Israelite only sees this because he is humble. A Canaanite town however is about to be captured by the Israelites. But the Canaanite isn't humble and so doesn't see it as a holy God sending the Israelites in judgement.
When it says that God did something that we perceive as evil, eg send an army to slaughter men women and children, we may believe this to be evil due to a lack of humility, which prevents us from seeing the situation from God's perspective.
Hence floo's perception of God as evil.

[Spud]

Sometimes we don't see God's perspective on an evil event that happens to us until afterwards, because it takes time to become humble and during the event we don't see ourselves as capable of  doing wrong.

[Hope]

Why should I think we should all start killing migrants, where the heck did you get that one from? I am one who sticks up for the migrants!

Well, Floo, you seem to regard the Judeo-Christian God as evil.  For that to be the case, he must be evil through and through, meaning that the huge majority of his instructions - such as caring for each other; for caring for the foreigner in their midst; for caring for the poor, marginalised and widows; etc. - must be evil.

On the day that we commemorate the British Army's most horrendous one-day loss of life - the first day of the Battle of the Somme - we need to remember that the British were responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands of Germans over the 5 months the Battle raged.  Do we regard the generals and politicians who ordered this massacre as 'evil'?

[trippymonkey]

Unfortunately the religious view of a God is reflective of all of human frailties & the negative things we are !!

[floo]

Well, Floo, you seem to regard the Judeo-Christian God as evil.  For that to be the case, he must be evil through and through, meaning that the huge majority of his instructions - such as caring for each other; for caring for the foreigner in their midst; for caring for the poor, marginalised and widows; etc. - must be evil.

On the day that we commemorate the British Army's most horrendous one-day loss of life - the first day of the Battle of the Somme - we need to remember that the British were responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands of Germans over the 5 months the Battle raged.  Do we regard the generals and politicians who ordered this massacre as 'evil'?

The actions attributed to god are wicked if they were for real like the flood. Words are cheap, actions speak volumes.

I don't regard those in charge during WW1 with any favour that is for sure, especially as they were well away from the slaughter!

[Hope]

I don't regard them with any favour that is for sure, especially as they were well away from the slaughter!

Not all were "well away from the slaughter".  The main 'culprits' were often within a mile or two of the front line.

[Hope]

One of the striking messages in the Jewish Bible (OT) is that God wants mercy not sacrifice.   Some people see this as carrying on into the NT, well, maybe, but it's just part of the Jewish mosaic, which is of course, contradictory, as all good liberal rabbis will tell you.

Whereas many other rabbis would disagree with them.  Notice that I haven't used the term 'conservative' because both theologically and politically, there are large swathes of people between the two extremes.

[floo]

Anyway you are not comparing like with like with like Hope. The WW1 was grim reality, much of what is in the Bible, including the god, is not in all probability.

[Brownie]

'Cleanliness is next to Godliness' so from what you say, WWl can certainly not be compared to anything Biblical floo  .

[floo]

'Cleanliness is next to Godliness' so from what you say, WWl can certainly not be compared to anything Biblical floo  .

Not in my opinion as the Bible isn't reality.

[Brownie]

Floo, I was having a joke, at your expense of course but not at all nasty - re-read your previous post  !

[floo]

On another forum a poster obviously has their head firmly wedged up the bum of their creation of god. They believe that everything god is supposed to have done in the Bible is good, however bad it appears to decent humans. They actually stated that their 'God of Love' is perfectly justified in sending people like me to burn in the fires of hell merely for not believing in it. There are of course at least two posters on R&E who would thoroughly endorse that POV. I realise that viewpoint is very extreme, but common enough, unfortunately.

[Brownie]

What has that to do with the thread, floo?
You said, "There are of course at least two posters on R&E..."
- muttering darkly about fellow posters again, I've never seen anyone do that about you.  If they have something to say, they say it, they don't drop hints.  However from what I've seen, most people like you!

Floo, why post on the other forum if it is so awful and why not ignore the "at least two posters" on here? You can't have much in common with any of them.  Forum posting is meant to be enjoyable.

[floo]

It has plenty to do with the thread, as it asks why Satan is the bad guy when the Biblical god is worse than any human. What is good about an entity, which would apparently roast people in the fires of hell for nothing more than unbelief, if it exists?

As for those two posters, I am usually on their shoot down in flames list, when they are posting.

Who says posting is meant to be enjoyable? I will always challenge the Christian extremist POV, which does so much harm in this world.

[Dicky Underpants]

Why should I think we should all start killing migrants, where the heck did you get that one from? I am one who sticks up for the migrants!

As NearlySane has kindly explained, it is a logical inference from your stubborn insistence on considering every pronouncement regarding God's nature in the Bible as evil. I quote a text where God in Leviticus is demanding "When a stranger stays in your land you shall not vex him". This is spoken by a prophet of said God. You believe said God to be evil. Therefore you presumably believe the contrary to this demand to be good.
I'd say it was pretty unlikely that you did believe such a stance to be desirable. But it's a logical inference from what you keep repeating ad nauseam.

[Dicky Underpants]

It has plenty to do with the thread, as it asks why Satan is the bad guy when the Biblical god is worse than any human. What is good about an entity, which would apparently roast people in the fires of hell for nothing more than unbelief, if it exists?

These are just differing views about God offered by the highly varied writers in the Bible. The text you allude to above is from the writer of the epistle 1John, if I'm not mistaken. Well, bully for him, and his splenetic theology and the petty-minded little sadists who believe literally in this view.
 There are no fires of hell at all in the Old Testament (and only one reference to any sort of afterlife), so again, we are just dealing here with ideas out of people's heads, which contradict each other.
I'm not sure why you should be so bothered, or why you insist on peddling this 'fundamentalism in reverse'.
As far as I'm concerned, there is no God , and that way I'm able to see the Bible as just a collection of (sometimes) interesting texts of very varying views.

[Dicky Underpants]

One of the striking messages in the Jewish Bible (OT) is that God wants mercy not sacrifice.   Some people see this as carrying on into the NT, well, maybe, but it's just part of the Jewish mosaic, which is of course, contradictory, as all good liberal rabbis will tell you.

wiggi

I don't know how hidebound orthodox Jews are by OT laws, but as you imply, there is a thread in the OT prophets which continually emphasises mercy over sacrifice, in Amos, Isaiah, and above all in Micah. In these prophets we see a continual desire to see the essentials of a morality to govern human society, stripped of anally-retentive and irrelevant commandments. Unfortunately or fortunately, the arguments continue.
Let's not forget Hillel, who summed up the whole of the Torah whilst standing on one leg......

[floo]

These are just differing views about God offered by the highly varied writers in the Bible. The text you allude to above is from the writer of the epistle 1John, if I'm not mistaken. Well, bully for him, and his splenetic theology and the petty-minded little sadists who believe literally in this view.
 There are no fires of hell at all in the Old Testament (and only one reference to any sort of afterlife), so again, we are just dealing here with ideas out of people's heads, which contradict each other.
I'm not sure why you should be so bothered, or why you insist on peddling this 'fundamentalism in reverse'.
As far as I'm concerned, there is no God , and that way I'm able to see the Bible as just a collection of (sometimes) interesting texts of very varying views.

I am well aware that the Bible is a collection of documents written over a long period of time by many authors, who each created their own take on the idea of a god. However their characterisation of god from Genesis onwards does it no favours whatsoever. I suspect by making it so highly unpleasant they were trying to say to those of other beliefs, 'our god is bigger and more powerful than yours.'

[Hope]

It has plenty to do with the thread, as it asks why Satan is the bad guy when the Biblical god is worse than any human. What is good about an entity, which would apparently roast people in the fires of hell for nothing more than unbelief, if it exists?

Floo, the problem with your argument is largely to do with language.  The Hebrew words often translated 'Hell' in English are 'sheol' and 'hinnom'.  Sheol literally means 'the place of the dead' or 'the place of departed souls/spirits'.  The New Testament Greek equivalent to sheol is hades, which is also a general reference to “the place of the dead.”

The Greek word gehenna is used in the New Testament for “hell” and is derived from the Hebrew word hinnom.

In the Hebrew Bible, Gehenna was initially where some of the kings of Judah sacrificed their children by fire. [http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/6558-gehenna - my addition] Thereafter it was deemed to be cursed (Jer. 7:31, 19:2-6).

In Jewish Rabbinic literature, and Christian and Islamic scripture, Gehenna is a destination of the wicked. This is different from the more neutral Sheol/Hades, the abode of the dead, although the King James Version of the Bible usually translates both with the Anglo-Saxon word Hell.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna

[Sassy]

I just don't understand why Satan is supposed to be a baddie, but the Biblical god all that is good? The deeds attributed to god are highly unpleasant to say the least, and indicate the entity is very deranged. Although poor Satan is always slagged off, no actual misdeeds have been attributed to him.

Ask a vicar.... if you have one in your family they can explain it to you.

Could you accept that a member of your family does understand why Satan is the baddie?

Could you accept anyone understands why Satan is the baddie.

Do you understand why you cannot accept he is the baddie.

That is the difference and the reason he is the baddie he causes people to die because they never believe the truth.