Were Out!

[Brownie]

You've certainly got a point JP.
Well, as someone above said, we are having a whinge right now - but tomorrow is another day and we'll 'get on with it'.  Life goes on.

[Samuel]

the will of the majority as shown via the Ballot Box!

Unless you're scottish. Their parliament had this result as a clause that would lead to another independence referendum in Scotland. Great.

[Gordon]

Unless you're scottish. Their parliament had this result as a clause that would lead to another independence referendum in Scotland. Great.

Better than great: superb, when compared with the prospect of PM Boris!

In 2014 one of the scare tactics from the naysayers was that an independent Scotland would have to leave the EU: in view of recent events the irony of this won't be lost on the Scottish electorate should there be another independence referendum.

 

[jeremyp]

That's right - when you lose because of your policies resort to name calling - that will really get people on your side - how many voted Leave because they were labeled racist by Remain!

The Leave campaign was a long list of unmitigated lies. If the Remainers called them liars, it is because they are liars.

The Leave campaign has no idea what to do now. The pound is at its worst level since 1985. The FTSE 100 is almost 300 points down. Hey xenophobic fuckwits: what's the plan? This morning it seemed to be "ask David Cameron to stay on and sort out the mess we created". If I could leave this country, I would and let you wallow in your small minded little England moronity.

[jeremyp]

Better than great: superb, when compared with the prospect of PM Boris!

In 2014 one of the scare tactics from the naysayers was that an independent Scotland would have to leave the EU: in view of recent events the irony of this won't be lost on the Scottish electorate should there be another independence referendum.
 

Independent Scotland will already be out of the EU and would have to reapply. But on the positive side, there will only be 27 other countries to convince, not 28.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Gordon,

Better than great: superb, when compared with the prospect of PM Boris!

Nicola's little speech this morning was very telling, I now can walk away and say, it's your mess, lie in it, I can't think of a single thing which would now stop me from voting Independence, on another thread there is a list of prospective candidates for PM, none of them fill me with any hope

Dear Jeremyp,

If I could leave this country, I would and let you wallow in your small minded little England moronity.

Come and join us, we have plenty of room, quick before they shut our borders

Gonnagle.

[Hope]

What, I think, can be said is that David Cameron is the least competent prime minister since Anthony Eden. Not only has he triggered the departure of the UK from the EU but also the dissolution of the United Kingdom - all by putting the interests of the Conservative Party before those of the country.

I would disagree, H.  He is possibly the most competent in that he recognised that both Labour and Tories are split down the middle.  I believe the result is bad for the UK and far further afield, but at least we now know where not only the Tories stand. If Maggie and Tony had allowed referenda on their respective treaties, I'm not sure we'd be in the situation in the first place.

[Jack Knave]

We won't get a deal that good. Everybody else in the EU is shitting themselves about their own population so we cannot be seen to do well out of this.

No, what that means is that the ruling elites will have to rethink their plans and accommodate the peoples' wishes. That'll mean that the kind of deal we are after will be given to all i.e. treaty change for the peoples' good.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No, what that means is that the ruling elites will have to rethink their plans and accommodate the peoples' wishes. That'll mean that the kind of deal we are after will be given to all i.e. treaty change for the peoples' good.

All the people have recently signalled in the last two elections in five years are
Brexit and first past the post.

What are the people asking in terms of treaty change for the people's good?

[Harrowby Hall]

The constitutional historian,Peter Hennessy, made an interesting observation on the PM programme on BBC Radio 4 this evening.

He was talking about the demographic analysis of voting patterns and observed that, in age terms, younger voters wanted to remain in the EU and older voters wanted to leave. So, the people at the work face of the economy, the managers and wealth generators, and also those stepping into those positions, are having their own wishes and options taken away from them by people about to leave those positions and by people who are no longer active in the workforce.

What might happen, in the not-too-distant future,when these young people realise that they have been cheated?

It also strikes me that a Boris Johnson prime ministerial selection would almost certainly be the consequence of choices made by the elderly.

[jeremyp]

No, what that means is that the ruling elites will have to rethink their plans and accommodate the peoples' wishes. That'll mean that the kind of deal we are after will be given to all i.e. treaty change for the peoples' good.

The Swedish trade minister has already stated that he is going to start persuading companies based in Britain to relocate to Sweden. I'm sure there are 26 other trade ministers who have all got plans to do the same thing. Tell me that doesn't frighten you.

This isn't independence, it's relegation from the Premier League and like a relegated football team, we are going to be stripped of our best players.

[L.A.]

The Swedish trade minister has already stated that he is going to start persuading companies based in Britain to relocate to Sweden. I'm sure there are 26 other trade ministers who have all got plans to do the same thing. Tell me that doesn't frighten you.

This isn't independence, it's relegation from the Premier League and like a relegated football team, we are going to be stripped of our best players.

Hardly surprising, we will lose a lot of good companies if we are not very careful.

[L.A.]

This is an interesting article I came across:

http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/business/nissan-says-no-comment-on-future-of-sunderland-plant-after-brexit-1-7980813

The 'No Comment' seems quite ominous to me.

[Harrowby Hall]

The Swedish trade minister has already stated that he is going to start persuading companies based in Britain to relocate to Sweden. I'm sure there are 26 other trade ministers who have all got plans to do the same thing. Tell me that doesn't frighten you.

This isn't independence, it's relegation from the Premier League and like a relegated football team, we are going to be stripped of our best players.

There has also been the suggestion that Airbus will move its wing manufacture from Bristol and North Wales to France. This is a very high tech operation, highly skilled and at the cutting edge of design and manufacturing.

[Harrowby Hall]

This is an interesting article I came across:

http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/business/nissan-says-no-comment-on-future-of-sunderland-plant-after-brexit-1-7980813

The 'No Comment' seems quite ominous to me.

Nissan, of course, is 42% owned by Renault. Several model from both companies share common platforms. It would make sense to build vehicles for both marques in one factory.

[~TW~]

Reading all your post has me crying in my wine with tears of joy

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland's AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.
Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.
I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.
Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,

1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't think it matters.
 
~TW~

[Bubbles]

Well we are going to have to turn it around somehow.

Show some old fashioned Dunkirk spirit, I guess, and pull together.

[ad_orientem]

Well done! The beginning of thr fall of the EU hopefully. At least the English didn't bottle it.

[L.A.]

Reading all your post has me crying in my wine with tears of joy

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland's AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.
Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.
I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.
Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,

1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't think it matters.
 
~TW~

One of the more depressing aspect of our present situation are that there are still people who don't recognise the magnitude of the mess that they have created . It will be a very long time until we are all as well off as we were pre-referendum - many of us will die first.

It's true, there are always opportunities for the young, my daughter and her partner are considering emigrating.

P.S.

. . . and it's a fact of life in today's world that large multinationals will site there manufacturing plants in location that suit them. Generally countries with stable government and economies, well educated workforce and good access to their market - and of course tax incentives may be an important factor.

Like it or not, that was true before Brexit and it is true now - the only thing that has changed is that the UK has become  very much less attractive location!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Hardly surprising, we will lose a lot of good companies if we are not very careful.

We have already been not careful.

[Sriram]

I realize its probably not a time for jokes....

....but here is a 'Yes Minister' episode that seems very apt.  Ha Ha!   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37iHSwA1SwE

Laugh guys...cheer up. Things will work out.

Sriram

[ekim]

 

[L.A.]

No, what that means is that the ruling elites will have to rethink their plans and accommodate the peoples' wishes. That'll mean that the kind of deal we are after will be given to all i.e. treaty change for the peoples' good.

You couldn't be further off the mark - the EU can not be seen to give the UK a millimeter. It is very much in the interest of the EU for Brexit to be seen to have made Britain poorer. That way no one else is likely to attempt to tread the same path.

There will be an offer 'on the table' very similar to Norway with little or no 'wriggle room' - take it or leave it. And all the time we think about it our economy flounders.

In a couple of years it will probably look quite attractive!

[Samuel]

Well we are going to have to turn it around somehow.

Show some old fashioned Dunkirk spirit, I guess, and pull together.

Now Rose, this isn't aimed at you personally, I really mean that, but...

Fuck the Dunkirk spirt. I don't want to know about any dusty, rose tinted bullshit idealism that would see us retreat into a hole of our own making. Fuck that shit. The deluded nationalism that seems to stir so many people, frankly, sickens me.

<sigh> honestly I'm still feeling very upset and am struggling to come to terms with what happened. BUT, I do recognise that this is democracy and that we will have to find a way to make the best of it. I think, honestly, I resent the way this has happened, but perhaps not entirely that it has happened. 

[Bubbles]

You couldn't be further off the mark - the EU can not be seen to give the UK a millimeter. It is very much in the interest of the EU for Brexit to be seen to have made Britain poorer. That way no one else is likely to attempt to tread the same path.

There will be an offer 'on the table' very similar to Norway with little or no 'wriggle room' - take it or leave it. And all the time we think about it our economy flounders.

In a couple of years it will probably look quite attractive!

It concerns me, that the EU doesn't want to be seen to give the UK any sort of deal that might cause unrest in their own countries.

It doesn't bode well for us, for a positive start or for our country.