Were Out!

[Jack Knave]

All the people have recently signalled in the last two elections in five years are
Brexit and first past the post.

What are the people asking in terms of treaty change for the people's good?

I was talking about what is going on in the EU where many of the MEPs etc. are talking about the need to change the EU so it works for the people not the elites at the top.

[Jack Knave]

The constitutional historian,Peter Hennessy, made an interesting observation on the PM programme on BBC Radio 4 this evening.

He was talking about the demographic analysis of voting patterns and observed that, in age terms, younger voters wanted to remain in the EU and older voters wanted to leave. So, the people at the work face of the economy, the managers and wealth generators, and also those stepping into those positions, are having their own wishes and options taken away from them by people about to leave those positions and by people who are no longer active in the workforce.

What might happen, in the not-too-distant future,when these young people realise that they have been cheated?

It also strikes me that a Boris Johnson prime ministerial selection would almost certainly be the consequence of choices made by the elderly.

You could also argue that the older ones are wiser and that the younger lot will thank them in decades to come when they realise that they have been saved from the tyranny of another USSR style insanity.

[Jack Knave]

The Swedish trade minister has already stated that he is going to start persuading companies based in Britain to relocate to Sweden. I'm sure there are 26 other trade ministers who have all got plans to do the same thing. Tell me that doesn't frighten you.

This isn't independence, it's relegation from the Premier League and like a relegated football team, we are going to be stripped of our best players.

Except there is a movement in Sweden to call for a referendum, and the discontent about the stagnating EU is growing day by day so they would just be moving into another lower league only to find they have jumped ship from the premier one. What you are looking at is what was, how things stood before, not how it will be in the future. This is why Brussels wants to rap up the negotiations with the UK as soon as possible because to leave it hanging in the air just allows these discontents to rally up the rhetoric and not allow the EU to contain them in a stabilized EU bloc.

[Jack Knave]

You couldn't be further off the mark - the EU can not be seen to give the UK a millimeter. It is very much in the interest of the EU for Brexit to be seen to have made Britain poorer. That way no one else is likely to attempt to tread the same path.

There will be an offer 'on the table' very similar to Norway with little or no 'wriggle room' - take it or leave it. And all the time we think about it our economy flounders.

In a couple of years it will probably look quite attractive!

The tone coming out of Brussels is that they want the UK to still be a part of the framing of Europe and to work with them. Things have changed for the EU, not just the UK leaving, but the voices within the EU who are saying it is not working and needs to change. This is why they want a quick negotiation with the UK so that they can stabilize things and stop others from having referendums, and to claim that the UK is a special case. Your attitude is from the past and is void of content.

[L.A.]

The tone coming out of Brussels is that they want the UK to still be a part of the framing of Europe and to work with them. Things have changed for the EU, not just the UK leaving, but the voices within the EU who are saying it is not working and needs to change. This is why they want a quick negotiation with the UK so that they can stabilize things and stop others from having referendums, and to claim that the UK is a special case. Your attitude is from the past and is void of content.

Of course they want us to continue trading with them - but they won't be doing us any favours - if they did, as you have pointed out, groups in other countries would be planning the same thing.

Right now there is great uncertainty and that is fuelling all the damaging activity on the stock exchange and money markets.  The longer this goes on the worse it will be for us. The EU are not suffering to anything like the same extent. They can afford to put an offer on the table and let us sweat it out.

My guess it that that offer won't be significantly different from Norway's.

[Hope]

My guess it that that offer won't be significantly different from Norway's.

I suspet that it will be similar to but more stringent than Norway's.

[jeremyp]

for a positive start or for our country.

What do you mean by "start for our country"? This country has existed since 1707.

[jeremyp]

Except there is a movement in Sweden to call for a referendum,

But they're not out yet and the trade minister is perfectly free to make pitches to UK based companies. The same applies to all the other trade ministers.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Where's BoJo?

[jeremyp]

My guess it that that offer won't be significantly different from Norway's.

And let us remind ourselves that Norway has much the same deal as us (including membership fees and free movement of labour) but doesn't have any say in what the rules are and probably doesn't get anything like the same level of EU grants.

[Jack Knave]

Of course they want us to continue trading with them - but they won't be doing us any favours - if they did, as you have pointed out, groups in other countries would be planning the same thing.

Right now there is great uncertainty and that is fuelling all the damaging activity on the stock exchange and money markets.  The longer this goes on the worse it will be for us. The EU are not suffering to anything like the same extent. They can afford to put an offer on the table and let us sweat it out.

My guess it that that offer won't be significantly different from Norway's.

You have been told endlessly that they need us more than we need them. We'll let them sweat it out, as they deal with the malcontents in their half of the pitch.

[Hope]

Well done! The beginning of thr fall of the EU hopefully. At least the English didn't bottle it.

Whilst it could presage the collapse of the EU, I'm not convinced of the value of such an outcome.  The EU is deeply flawed - of that there is no doubt - but I'm not sure that our leaving will actually help it improve.

[Hope]

You have been told endlessly that they need us more than we need them. We'll let them sweat it out, as they deal with the malcontents in their half of the pitch.

They need us so much that they can probably find outlets for the 6% loss of exports far easier than we can find outlets for our  60%-odd loss of exports.

[Jack Knave]

They need us so much that they can probably find outlets for the 6% loss of exports far easier than we can find outlets for our  60%-odd loss of exports.

It seems German industry doesn't agree with you. Neither do I think the French producers either.

Le Pen is also calling for a French referendum and as more in France are not happy with the way the EU is going than is in the UK the call for change is just going to grow and grow.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It seems German industry doesn't agree with you. Neither do I think the French producers either.

Le Pen is also calling for a French referendum and as more in France are not happy with the way the EU is going than is in the UK the call for change is just going to grow and grow.

I'm sure they'll back off until they see how the brexit plan works out........what is the plan by the way?

[L.A.]

You have been told endlessly that they need us more than we need them. We'll let them sweat it out, as they deal with the malcontents in their half of the pitch.

Yes I know we have been told that, and it is another of those BIG LIES.

We are the ones with the tumbling currency and stock market. Make no mistake - the Brexit vote has already resulted in grave damage to our economy - two years down the line this country would be in very deep shit!

All the EU need to do is wait.

[Harrowby Hall]

I said a long time ago that Nigel Farage's ambition was to make EngWales* the Argentina of Europe. He must be so proud of his achievement.


* Not really sure what the call the likely political entity of the future. "United Kingdom" will be inaccurate, Great Britain is a geographical term. Little Britain is a street in the (diminished)City of London.

[Hope]

All the EU need to do is wait.

Except that they don't want to.  They don't want the uncertainty that is Brexit to last too long, thus making their own economy/ies less stable.

[Hope]

I said a long time ago that Nigel Farage's ambition was to make EngWales* the Argentina of Europe. He must be so proud of his achievement.


* Not really sure what the call the likely political entity of the future. "United Kingdom" will be inaccurate, Great Britain is a geographical term. Little Britain is a street in the (diminished)City of London.

What was it called before we annexed Ireland post English Civil War, and Scotland acceded back in 1707.

[jeremyp]

What was it called before we annexed Ireland post English Civil War, and Scotland acceded back in 1707.

England. We took Wales by force too so they didn't have much say in the matter.

I vote for "Little England" to contrast with "Great Britain" which has now been utterly trashed by the Little Englanders of the Leave campaign.

[Hope]

England. We took Wales by force too so they didn't have much say in the matter.

I vote for "Little England" to contrast with "Great Britain" which has now been utterly trashed by the Little Englanders of the Leave campaign.

How about the Rump Kingdom   

[L.A.]

The tone coming out of Brussels is that they want the UK to still be a part of the framing of Europe and to work with them. Things have changed for the EU, not just the UK leaving, but the voices within the EU who are saying it is not working and needs to change. This is why they want a quick negotiation with the UK so that they can stabilize things and stop others from having referendums, and to claim that the UK is a special case. Your attitude is from the past and is void of content.

If you are referring to the same interview that I heard on Radio 4 with one of the EU commissioners, what she said was that the EU commissioners had no wish punish Britain, but it was for the individual member governments to agree the terms that would be offered to britain. i.e. if any government is worried by it's own exit movement, it can stick-out for punitive terms for Britain.

[Owlswing]

The new Democratic Labour Party


https://uk.news.yahoo.com/labour-mp-urges-commons-vote-block-brexit-180723258.html?nhp=1

[Harrowby Hall]

Isn't the concept of "labour" somewhat outdated?

Perhaps a left-wing party would be more successful if its name didn't reflect something of the distant past?

[floo]

Isn't the concept of "labour" somewhat outdated?

Perhaps a left-wing party would be more successful if its name didn't reflect something of the distant past?

You might be right.