An open letter to Nigel Farage

[Bubbles]

so, sorry, what is your idea here? It is right if you think it is right?

The point is I think , is that I find it difficult to decide who is right and who isn't. I tend towards the status quo unless I see reason to change it.

With Scotland leaving the UK I'm not keen because I think it makes us all to small and divided.

If that doesn't matter, and Scotland still claim the right because they want to, then I think Shetland should be allowed the same consideration along with the other countries ( Wales and Northan Ireland) and Cornwall and anyone else who can make a case for it.

Scotland shouldn't be an exception. One should be fair in these things.

Which won't work, because if you split the UK up that much, it won't function at all.

[L.A.]

Dear Nigel,

I feel that I must congratulate you on pulling-off one of the most spectacular confidence tricks in living memory. Not only have you managed to convince normally sensible people that they being threatened by evil bureaucrats and hoards of migrants, but you managed to get your ideas adopted by a significant section of the Tory party. And hence, a party normally highly regarded for economic responsibility, decided on the risky strategy that finally resulted in driving the country to economic suicide.

But I'm sure that you could not have pulled of this feat alone. The Great Boris saw a bandwagon that he though might take him to downing street and jumped on. And of course there were many others. Some like Boris saw opportunities for personal gain while others simply had grudges and delusions.

Jolly well done!

Your obedient servant

SATAN 

[Bubbles]

The the law was a weird thing years ago

Came across this:

A real ordeal

Justice for the Anglo-Saxons and even after the Norman invasion of 1066 was a combination of local and royal government. Local courts were presided over by a lord or one of his stewards. The King’s court – the Curia Regis – was, initially at least, presided over by the King himself.

Today, going on trial in an English and Welsh court is not exactly a comfortable experience. But it’s far better than trial by ordeal, used until almost the end of the 12th century to determine guilt or innocence in criminal cases.

Under this system, the accused would be forced to pick up a red hot bar of iron, pluck a stone out of a cauldron of boiling water, or something equally painful and dangerous.

If their hand had begun to heal after three days they were considered to have God on their side, thus proving their innocence. The number of ‘not guilty’ verdicts recorded by this system is not known.

Another, extremely popular ‘ordeal’ involved water; the accused would be tied up and thrown into a lake or other body of water. If innocent, he or she would sink.

There were two problems with this method, which was often used to try suspected witches: the accused was tied right thumb to left toe, left thumb to right toe, which made it almost impossible to sink; and opinion is divided as to whether those who did sink were fished out afterwards.

William II (1087-1100) eventually banned trial by ordeal – reportedly because 50 men accused of killing his deer had passed the test – and it was condemned by the Church in 1216.

https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/about-the-judiciary/history-of-the-judiciary/

I wonder if Nigel Farage would pass the test 

[Nearly Sane]

The point is I think , is that I find it difficult to decide who is right and who isn't. I tend towards the status quo unless I see reason to change it.

With Scotland leaving the UK I'm not keen because I think it makes us all to small and divided.

If that doesn't matter, and Scotland still claim the right because they want to, then I think Shetland should be allowed the same consideration along with the other countries ( Wales and Northan Ireland) and Cornwall and anyone else who can make a case for it.

Scotland shouldn't be an exception. One should be fair in these things.

Which won't work, because if you split the UK up that much, it won't function at all.

is Switzerland too small? Should it not exist because you think size is important!

[Bubbles]

I wonder if Nigal Farage saw this one coming?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36626553

[Bubbles]

is Switzerland too small? Should it not exist because you think size is important!

I don't, but Scotland doesn't seem prepared to extend the same democracy and self determination to the Shetland isles.

Why is that then?

Here is a map of Europe, showing the separatist groups, should they all be separate countries?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_separatist_movements_in_Europe

Who should determine who is and who isn't entitled to independance? Or even a voice and a vote to say so?

If it was all down to the people living there and democracy, they would all be independant.

Why should Scotland be an exception?

[Nearly Sane]

I don't, but Scotland doesn't seem prepared to extend the same democracy and self determination to the Shetland isles.

Why is that then?

Here is a map of Europe, showing the separatist groups, should they all be separate countries?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_separatist_movements_in_Europe

Who should determine who is and who isn't entitled to independance?

If it was all down to the people living there, they would all be independant.

Why should Scotland be an exception?

To what?  What is your position about what a country should be, be that Scotland or any other country might be an 'exception"?

[Bubbles]

is Switzerland too small? Should it not exist because you think size is important!

Even Switzerland isn't so small it hasn't got its separatists

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/separatist-swiss-canton-celebrates-30-years/6939862

 

Did I read that right? 

Just when you think a country is a country, it starts splitting up, into bits 

[Bubbles]

To what?  What is your position about what a country should be, be that Scotland or any other country might be an 'exception"?

A country just appears to be a graphical area of land where some of the people feel united by a loose set of cultural identities and with areas that don't feel that, melded together by some sort of power structure and force which is challenged by other littler bits that challenge the authority which is the status quo.

Hence it can be eternally split down into tiddlier and tiddlier bits.

Who determines if smaller areas can be counted as separate countries goes on how much clout the separatist bits have and if the recognised authority at the time can put them down or is forced to acknowledge them.

No one claim seems more valid than another.

A country should be able to function for the benefit of those living there.

We live on an island ( excepting Ireland) our boundaries are more obvious.

[Nearly Sane]

A country just appears to be a graphical area of land where some of the people feel united by a loose set of cultural identities and with areas that don't feel that, melded together by some sort of power structure and force which is challenged by other littler bits that challenge the authority which is the status quo.

Hence it can be eternally split down into tiddleer and tiddleer bits.

Who determines if smaller areas can be counted as separate countries goes on how much clout the separatist bits have and if the recognised authority at the time can put them down or is force to acknowledge them.

No one claim seems more valid than another.

A country should be able to function for the benefit of those living there.

We live on an island ( excepting Ireland) our boundaries are more obvious.

So our boundaries aren"t obvious and France isn't a country!  Do you actually have a position?

[Nearly Sane]

Even Switzerland isn't so small it hasn't got its separatists

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/separatist-swiss-canton-celebrates-30-years/6939862

 

Did I read that right? 

Just when you think a country is a country, it starts splitting up, into bits 

I have no idea, what is it that you that think is correct?

[Bubbles]

So our boundaries aren"t obvious and France isn't a country!  Do you actually have a position?

NS, I said our boundaries are more obvious. Who said France isn't a country?  I didn't.

Yes my position is Scotland, England and Wales are part of the U.K and should remain so.

We are part of the same small landmass.

Northern Ireland isn't and IMO I'm flexible as to whether they go or remain, that's up to them.

But England Wales and Scotland are part of the same landmass.
Our boundaries are obvious because they are made up of the sea. We are an Island.

For better or worse.

You did ask 

You don't hear much about Scottish Terrorists but they exist.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_National_Liberation_Army

No matter what happens we are all still stuck on the same Island.

A small Island.

We can either get on with it and enjoy it, or make each other's lives a misery and hate each other.

I'd much rather we had a shared future rather than pandering to haters that send acid through the post to hurt someone who lives across the other side of an imaginary line.

[Bubbles]

I have no idea, what is it that you that think is correct?

That Switzerland, small as it is, has separatist groups.

[Ricky Spanish]

Dear Blue,

I would like to second that emotion, and add, get it right up you Mr Farage.

Gonnagle.

They don't like it up 'em Mr. Gonnagle:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhWlAKdlQp4

[jakswan]

Not really.

Most countries are formed by war and force, not democracy.

No one is offering Cornwall self determination no matter how much they want to be recognised as a country and not a county.

Same if they feel Cornish rather than English? ( or British)

Countries are not formed by democracy, they are formed by wars and invasion.

The queen wasn't elected by democracy either, she got there by the same process.

If you offer democracy ( in the form of independance) to Scotland, Wales and Ireland  what about Cornwall?

Are they not entitled to democracy as well? Then you have counties, originally under the rule of smaller kingships and rulers.

Who is to say Essex or Somerset shouldn't also have the right to self determination?

The whole of civilisation on our little island was created by which thug in which area thumped the hardest and who went creeping up to who, and got made a lord or a squire.

Scotland fought once to retain its own band of rulers and they lost out, just like all the other areas of Britain.

The problem with self determination is that it all breaks up, back into its little bits.

It was force that joined it together, like the old USSR.

We are a very small country and we stand in danger of splitting into many little bits if we really did the self determination and democracy bit.

Sometimes we are more stable together.


Cornwall has its own flag / language and sees itself as a country.

How small do you want to go?

The Shetland Islands wanted independance from Scotland, which was roundly ignored. ( by the Scottish I hasten to add)

If you really wanted self determination and democracy, Scotland too gets smaller. Not even all of Scotland wants to be part of a United Scotland.

 

Sometimes a stable peace is one imposed by force.

Not posh and democratic or self determining, but politically incorrect nowadays.

However it works, pretty much.

Civilisation forming was more about force than democracy.

Democracy is a luxury until it breaks us up to much.

You need a balance.

The difficulty comes when you tell Cornwall or Shetland they can't have the same right of determination because you don't recognise them.

I disagree if the population of Cornwall wanted to be independent then they should be allowed to be and this is what happens, e.g. Isle of Man.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Brexit MEP Hannan says Free movement of labour inevitable with EU but we will have ''some control''.                                      Source BBC.

Still......... another day of ''wearing off'' Brexit euphoria and turdpolishing awaits Boris, Gove and Nigel.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Jak,

I'm clutching at straws here, but here's a scenario: alarmed by the rise of nationalism across Europe and the risk of a domino effect, the EU proposes major reforms and concessions as a last gasp effort to bring us back; Cameron takes it to the country; the electorate having seen markets tanking etc and the cluelessness of Johnson, Grayling et al re what happens next this time vote next time to remain.

It's an awful thin straw though...   

I think Boris and Gove are now hoping for a turn round in public opinion towards a second referendum which as you say, having seen the markets tank, may deliver another result. If Brexitters such as Hannan begin to feed in the idea of ''inevitable free movement of labour'' and ''some control'' it may ease the consciences of regretful brexiters.

Boris can accurately claim that the two referendum scenario was his idea all along.

The Conservatives have about a week in which to get their act together otherwise their reputation will be completely shot.

[Harrowby Hall]

The Brexoters decided to have a victory rally n Wembley Stadium. This was to be the first appearance together of Nigel farage and Boris johnson. The stadium was packed with their excited geriatric supporters.

As their adapted ex-popemobile completed its circuit of the stadium, two shots rang out.  Nigel and Boris fell dead.

The gunman was arrested and brought before the magistrates.

The crime shown on the charge sheet:

          COUNTRYSIDE

[Bubbles]

I disagree if the population of Cornwall wanted to be independent then they should be allowed to be and this is what happens, e.g. Isle of Man.

Ok then they should get the opportunity to vote then.

But it makes for very small groups.

Presumably as well, you support the petition to make London areas that voted remain,  independent, from the rest of the U.K..

Otherwise it's discrimination. ( it says about London in link below 100,000 signatures now)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/25/more-than-half-a-million-sign-petition-demanding-referendum-reru/

[Walt Zingmatilder]

The Brexoters decided to have a victory rally n Wembley Stadium. This was to be the first appearance together of Nigel farage and Boris johnson. The stadium was packed with their excited geriatric supporters.

As their adapted ex-popemobile completed its circuit of the stadium, two shots rang out.  Nigel and Boris fell dead.

The gunman was arrested and brought before the magistrates.

The crime shown on the charge sheet:

          COUNTRYSIDE

That would be a phyrric victory.

[jeremyp]

Politicians run the country and shouldn't be putting the choices in the hands of the public when said public know bugger all about it, and vote with their gut reaction.

Bingo!

Not only that, but the motive for putting this particular choice into the hands of the public was avoiding the destruction of the Conservative Party. Well that backfired spectacularly.

[jakswan]

Ok then they should get the opportunity to vote then.

But it makes for very small groups.

Presumably as well, you support the petition to make London areas that voted remain,  independent, from the rest of the U.K..

Otherwise it's discrimination. ( it says about London in link below 100,000 signatures now)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/25/more-than-half-a-million-sign-petition-demanding-referendum-reru/

If there is a serious political movement for independence, yes.

[Harrowby Hall]

Following the (first) Scottish referendum, David Cameron had the opportunity to establish a commission to look at the British Constitution and to consider its relevance for the 21st century.

As he has always done, he put the interests of his party before those of the country and he decided on a fudge - English votes for English laws. He has also decided that in some places there can be tinkering with the mechanisms of governance. Hence we proposals for a "northern powerhouse" and a "greater West Midlands" - the relationship of these to the rest of the country does not seem to have been considered. But they are ad hoc, back-of-the-envelope musings with little evidence of strategy.

A commission would have been able to look at Cornwall and make appropriate recommendations - and for the electoral system, the nature of any second chamber, regionalisation and so on. Instead we had a quick fix that doesn't work.

[JP]

If we are all wanting to go our own selfish way and turn the clock back to a time in the past which suits our personal agenda, can I ask for my own kingdom of the land that stretched from the Forth to the Humber to be returned and become special or independant.

[Bubbles]

Hmmmmm!

Imo to much democracy leads to anarchy.

To many little bits.