Author Topic: An open letter to Nigel Farage  (Read 19559 times)

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: An open letter to Nigel Farage
« Reply #150 on: June 27, 2016, 02:35:30 PM »
Gordon,

Quote
Nigel is not 'the man'.

...unless you add the suffix "-iac".
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Bubbles

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Re: An open letter to Nigel Farage
« Reply #151 on: June 27, 2016, 02:44:18 PM »
If Boris does win I hope he is taken, kicking and screaming if necessary, to a decent barber! :D

Nah!

It's part of his cute and cuddly look  ;)

jakswan

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Re: An open letter to Nigel Farage
« Reply #152 on: June 27, 2016, 04:17:58 PM »
Then explain why this clown has a mandate to represent the views of Scotland in any discussions?

Just in case you missed it, in the recent Holyrood elections his party didn't contest any constituency seats and got just 2% of the regional votes gaining a massive zero seats, and then of course his pitch on the EU was comprehensively rejected by voters here.

Nigel is not 'the man'.

No fan of Farage and I can't see him being involved at all in negotiations, although anyone is better than SNP. :) Don't accept he has no mandate to represent the UK though as his party do have support.

In the last GE total votes cast for the SNP were less than that of the LibDems.
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jeremyp

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Re: An open letter to Nigel Farage
« Reply #153 on: June 27, 2016, 05:25:14 PM »
MEeee?

What have done? I never triggered this referendum!!!
But you presumably voted Leave. Stop trying to pass the buck.
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Gordon

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Re: An open letter to Nigel Farage
« Reply #154 on: June 27, 2016, 05:34:32 PM »
No fan of Farage and I can't see him being involved at all in negotiations, although anyone is better than SNP. :) Don't accept he has no mandate to represent the UK though as his party do have support.

In the last GE total votes cast for the SNP were less than that of the LibDems.

That would be though because the SNP only campaign in Scotland, and on that basis the SNP do have a mandate to represent Scotland based on Scottish votes. It is quite calling to see the coverage Nigel and Boris get on national media given their irrelevance here in Scotland.

Jack Knave

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Re: An open letter to Nigel Farage
« Reply #155 on: June 27, 2016, 06:59:46 PM »
JK,

Leaving aside the irony of that - ....

My question for you by the way concerned where you thought I was factually incorrect.
What you refer to as irony was my answer to your question. All you were doing for the most part was project fear of saying look at this and that it is all falling apart - all this being short term, myopia, of what seems to be going on now. My proposal is about how things will span out in the long term and that being for the better.


Quote
surely it's the Brexiters who are dong just that with regard to Europe isn't it? - what I'm actually saying is more like, 'this decision is so important that it should be made on the basis of facts rather than lies, and on the basis of people knowing what they're being asked to vote for rather than just against".
The Brexiters that might be doing this are the ones who joined the Leavers at the last minute as an expedient act of selfishness. Many aren't but are calling for calm as many Remainers (especially the young) are now panicking, kicking up the dust and scaring the 'horses'. Liam Fox is one of these calm voices and of course our wonderful Nigel.

So what are the facts as you see them?

As for your last bit the problem here is that those twats in whatever gave the official leave group to Vote-Leave and not Leave.EU or GO. The other problem is that most of the Commons have pro-EU MPs and the Leave campaigners had/have no governmental power to implement any plans, even if they have some (especially those who have a long standing anti-EU rhetoric). In essence the Leavers are not a single coherent group with one vision but a menagerie of who ever wanted to join their ship. This is why I want Farage and UKIP to take charge of the negotiations with other long standing anti-EU people.

Jack Knave

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Re: An open letter to Nigel Farage
« Reply #156 on: June 27, 2016, 07:17:28 PM »
Dear Jack,

Nigel :o :o has he put forward a plan, if so can you point me to it, and I am not a conspiracy theory kind of guy but your explanation of the 250 million could well be right, suddenly we have this spare cash :o

Gonnagle.
Of course Nigel has a plan, he's been preaching it for years. All you need to do is read up on what he has been doing for the last 20 years and it'll all become clear. We leave fully from the EU, no half measures. At least get back to the circumstances we were in when we were just in the EEC.

This 250 billion is just printed off (in fact it is just typed out like so £250,000,000 - there that's all they do and buy back the UK bonds to ease those poor little bwankers debts so they can go and gamble it away in the shadow banking markets). It is not backed up by anything actual, of productive worth or assets etc. it is just printed Zimbabwe style and when all this QE finally gets into the public system inflation will hit the roof and further.


Jack Knave

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Re: An open letter to Nigel Farage
« Reply #157 on: June 27, 2016, 07:31:38 PM »
Then explain why this clown has a mandate to represent the views of Scotland in any discussions?

Just in case you missed it, in the recent Holyrood elections his party didn't contest any constituency seats and got just 2% of the regional votes gaining a massive zero seats, and then of course his pitch on the EU was comprehensively rejected by voters here.

Nigel is not 'the man'.
You Scots forget that the referendum was about the UK leaving the EU not the various constituent parts of it doing so. You seem to have forgotten that we all joined the EU as the UK, you lot didn't join independently of us in 1973. So stop whinge on about it. You are part of the UK and what the people of the UK votes for goes. That's life. You have your own parliament and so some independents, what is wrong?

Jack Knave

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Re: An open letter to Nigel Farage
« Reply #158 on: June 27, 2016, 07:37:16 PM »
But you presumably voted Leave. Stop trying to pass the buck.
But it was only one vote in 17 million. I mean, that's very small.  ;D

Gordon

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Re: An open letter to Nigel Farage
« Reply #159 on: June 27, 2016, 07:47:18 PM »
You Scots forget that the referendum was about the UK leaving the EU not the various constituent parts of it doing so. You seem to have forgotten that we all joined the EU as the UK, you lot didn't join independently of us in 1973. So stop whinge on about it. You are part of the UK and what the people of the UK votes for goes. That's life. You have your own parliament and so some independents, what is wrong?

You must have missed both the 2015 GE results, the recent Holyrood elections and the voting pattern in Scotland just the other day.

Hopefully we won't be part of the UK for much longer, given this madness - but if it does hit the fan, as seems likely, then unlike England & Wales we should manage to extricate ourselves. I just feel sorry for the considerable number of voters in England and Wales who had the sense to vote Remain, and also those Leave voters who were conned by a combination of an incompetent PM and a bunch of self important liars.


jakswan

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Re: An open letter to Nigel Farage
« Reply #160 on: June 27, 2016, 07:50:04 PM »
That would be though because the SNP only campaign in Scotland, and on that basis the SNP do have a mandate to represent Scotland based on Scottish votes. It is quite calling to see the coverage Nigel and Boris get on national media given their irrelevance here in Scotland.

Well that is the fault of the 55% of Scots who wanted to remain.
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Gordon

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Re: An open letter to Nigel Farage
« Reply #161 on: June 27, 2016, 07:58:15 PM »
Well that is the fault of the 55% of Scots who wanted to remain.

Indeed it was, and I think they were misled by the so called 'Vow' at the last minute and by being told that if we wanted to stay in the EU we had to stay in the UK - a point forcibly made by Unionists of all political stripes: the irony of which hasn't gone unnoticed here!

But that was then and this is now, and as wee Bob said 'the times they are a-changing' - if this Brexit nonsense is unstoppable then IndyRef2 seems unavoidable, and this time I expect the result will be different.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: An open letter to Nigel Farage
« Reply #162 on: June 27, 2016, 08:01:11 PM »
JK,

Quote
What you refer to as irony was my answer to your question. All you were doing for the most part was project fear of saying look at this and that it is all falling apart - all this being short term, myopia, of what seems to be going on now. My proposal is about how things will span out in the long term and that being for the better.

No, the irony was that the “running away” is being done by the Brexiters – specifically running away from the huge geopolitical issues that confront us by hiding in the garden shed in the hope that it’ll all go away.

So-called project fear said that certain consequences would follow, and they have – and then some as the likely break up of the Union was, if anything, underplayed. Whether these are short-term issues or the first steps to long term decline, increased risk and levelling out at about the same size economy and diplomatic influence of Slovakia is something neither you nor I know. What I do know is that the risk of this happening is significantly greater than it was a week ago.

Quote
The Brexiters that might be doing this are the ones who joined the Leavers at the last minute as an expedient act of selfishness. Many aren't but are calling for calm as many Remainers (especially the young) are now panicking, kicking up the dust and scaring the 'horses'. Liam Fox is one of these calm voices and of course our wonderful Nigel.

Your “wonderful Nigel” is a populist rabble rouser of the worst kind, endlessly looking for people to blame for economic and social ills with no discernible understanding of the real causes of either, let alone of the solutions.
 
As for young people, what they’re responding to is the grim realisation that the freedoms and opportunities so hard won over recent decades and now treated as commonplace are about to be snatched away by an unholy alliance of little Englander right wing ideologues who will be long gone when it all comes crashing down and it’s left to those very young people to pick up the pieces – assuming there are still any pieces left. 

2030 History GSCE Paper 1
 
1. What went so badly wrong after the 2016 In/Out referendum?

2. Who was to blame?

3. Where are they now?

Quote
So what are the facts as you see them?

The same as they were a few posts ago when I told you what they are.

Quote
As for your last bit the problem here is that those twats in whatever gave the official leave group to Vote-Leave and not Leave.EU or GO. The other problem is that most of the Commons have pro-EU MPs and the Leave campaigners had/have no governmental power to implement any plans, even if they have some (especially those who have a long standing anti-EU rhetoric). In essence the Leavers are not a single coherent group with one vision but a menagerie of who ever wanted to join their ship. This is why I want Farage and UKIP to take charge of the negotiations with other long standing anti-EU people.

Hideous thought. And the real problem by the way is that just enough people bought the very lies the Brexiters are now frantically rowing back from to swing the referendum the wrong way.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 08:46:11 PM by bluehillside »
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jakswan

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Re: An open letter to Nigel Farage
« Reply #163 on: June 27, 2016, 10:00:58 PM »
Indeed it was, and I think they were misled by the so called 'Vow' at the last minute and by being told that if we wanted to stay in the EU we had to stay in the UK - a point forcibly made by Unionists of all political stripes: the irony of which hasn't gone unnoticed here!

But that was then and this is now, and as wee Bob said 'the times they are a-changing' - if this Brexit nonsense is unstoppable then IndyRef2 seems unavoidable, and this time I expect the result will be different.

I think rUK and Scotland will be better off with a split, the divisive nature of the SNP does little for either country.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
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Gordon

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Re: An open letter to Nigel Farage
« Reply #164 on: June 27, 2016, 10:11:48 PM »
I think rUK and Scotland will be better off with a split, the divisive nature of the SNP does little for either country.

I agree, although I'm happy to see the SNP push to exit the UK in the current circumstances and I don't see them as decisive - I see the Brexit mob, and especially the Tory/Ukip characters and the current spineless PM as being the toxic element.

Hope

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Re: An open letter to Nigel Farage
« Reply #165 on: June 27, 2016, 10:18:52 PM »
I agree, although I'm happy to see the SNP push to exit the UK in the current circumstances and I don't see them as decisive - I see the Brexit mob, and especially the Tory/Ukip characters and the current spineless PM as being the toxic element.
I notice that you talk about the 'current spineless PM'.  That suggests that other PMs have been spineless.   :o  I'd suggest that he's less spineless than several we've had since Maggie.
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Gordon

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Re: An open letter to Nigel Farage
« Reply #166 on: June 27, 2016, 10:31:16 PM »
I notice that you talk about the 'current spineless PM'.  That suggests that other PMs have been spineless.   :o  I'd suggest that he's less spineless than several we've had since Maggie.

No it doesn't - I suggest you study Russell's Theory of Descriptions since 'current' is a clear reference to, on the context of this discussion, a single instance of a PM since no earlier PMs match this referant (even those who were similarly spineless).

You win today's pedantry prize.

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: An open letter to Nigel Farage
« Reply #167 on: June 27, 2016, 10:43:48 PM »
Just been watching the News about the rise in racial tensions post referendum. Is anyone else feeling as if this country has become a colder, uglier place all of a sudden now that Farage has got his way?
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Bubbles

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Re: An open letter to Nigel Farage
« Reply #168 on: June 27, 2016, 10:57:20 PM »
Just been watching the News about the rise in racial tensions post referendum. Is anyone else feeling as if this country has become a colder, uglier place all of a sudden now that Farage has got his way?

Yes, and some of that is people not accepting the results of a democratic vote.

It might have the effect of some remain voters changing their mind, second time round, because they feel it's a form of bullying.

« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 10:59:35 PM by Rose »

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: An open letter to Nigel Farage
« Reply #169 on: June 27, 2016, 11:04:50 PM »
Rose,

Quote
Yes, and some of that is people not accepting the results of a democratic vote.

When does a democratic vote cease to be a democratic vote when the "winners" have to row back so dramatically on the lies that may well have won it for them?

Quote
It might have the effect of some remain voters changing their mind, second time round, because they feel it's a form of bullying.

And it might have the opposite effect if some Brexiters realise the harm their decision is causing.
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Bubbles

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Re: An open letter to Nigel Farage
« Reply #170 on: June 27, 2016, 11:11:29 PM »
Well I was watching the prime minister this morning on BBC and the government seem to be rallying around and it didn't sound as dire as portrayed on here and in the papers.

If they can be relatively cheerful about it, and accepting of it, so can I.

They want us to pull together.

At the moment we seem to be ok.

Perhaps it won't be that bad.

The Chancellor seemed to think we are in a fairly strong financial position to cope with it.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 11:14:13 PM by Rose »

BeRational

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Re: An open letter to Nigel Farage
« Reply #171 on: June 27, 2016, 11:14:06 PM »
Well I was watching the prime minister this morning on BBC and the government seem to be rallying around and it didn't sound as dire as portrayed on here.

If they can be relatively cheerful about it, and accepting of it, so can I.

They want us to pull together.

At the moment we seem to be ok.

Perhaps it won't be that bad.

They have to look like that to settle the markets.

We are all poorer and the country is sinking.

Fuel prices will be next.
I see gullible people, everywhere!

bluehillside Retd.

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Re: An open letter to Nigel Farage
« Reply #172 on: June 27, 2016, 11:16:36 PM »
Rose,

Quote
Well I was watching the prime minister this morning on BBC and the government seem to be rallying around and it didn't sound as dire as portrayed on here.

If they can be relatively cheerful about it, and accepting of it, so can I.

They want us to pull together.

At the moment we seem to be ok.

Perhaps it won't be that bad.

Of course they are - what choice do they have? Markets are tumbling, sterling is tanking, the UK credit rating has dipped (causing increased borrowing costs significantly in excess of our EU membership fees), politics is in meltdown, racial tensions are up etc.

If they said what they actually think - that it's a fucking catastrophe - any or all of these things could get even worse.

Yes, maybe it won't be that bad - but maybe it'll be even worse.

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Bubbles

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Re: An open letter to Nigel Farage
« Reply #173 on: June 27, 2016, 11:24:47 PM »
Well I can't do anything about it, except deal with things as they come along. No point in worrying myself to a frazzle about what might happen.

Being miserable and blaming people won't make it any better.


BeRational

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Re: An open letter to Nigel Farage
« Reply #174 on: June 28, 2016, 12:38:28 AM »
Well I can't do anything about it, except deal with things as they come along. No point in worrying myself to a frazzle about what might happen.

Being miserable and blaming people won't make it any better.

Burying your head in the sand is one approach I suppose.

Whatever makes you happy.

Just do not dwell on the reality of the situation.
I see gullible people, everywhere!