An open letter to Nigel Farage

[bluehillside Retd.]

jeremy,

I think the first referendum should have been run on that basis, but it's too late now. In any case, the Leave campaign would have spent a lot of time telling us that the independent office was in the government's pocket. Pretty much every single independent expert came out for Remain anyway and people ignored them.

They did, but there's a difference I think between facts and predictions about outcomes. For sure the latter can be debated but - for example - the net cost of membership vs the investment back into the UK economy are checkable facts. We have an office of budget responsibility now for example, so I'd have thought something similar could be organised for an in/out referendum, maybe staffed by academics, accountants or similar.

That requires the cooperation of the other EU states. My impression is that they are in no mood to be nice to us right now.

Yes, but currently Art 50 is a blunt go/no go option. If they're genuinely concerned at losing the fifth biggest economy on the planet (at least it was last week) and at the potential effect of Brexit on other wavering Member Sates, it'd be in their interests to agree to "Art 50 light" I'd have thought.

[Bubbles]

For some people, it might lead to not being able to afford a package holiday. For others it might lead to not being able to afford a house.

Lots of people couldn't afford to buy a house before Brexit, that's an ongoing and pre existing issue.

Lots of first time buyers have found it difficult, strangely they are predicting with house prices falling, first time buyers might actually benefit ( if they have a stable job and can get the mortgage)

http://www.homesandproperty.co.uk/property-news/brexit-latest-eu-departure-could-help-londons-firsttime-buyers-get-on-the-property-ladder-a102336.html

[bluehillside Retd.]

Rose,

Lots of people couldn't afford to buy a house before Brexit, that's an ongoing and pre existing issue.

Yes, but the point rather is whether Brexit will mean that even fewer people will be able to buy a house.

Lots of first time buyers have found it difficult, strangely they are predicting with house prices falling, first time buyers might actually benefit ( if they have a stable job and can get the mortgage)

Just focus on that "if" for a minute.

[Jack Knave]

You must have missed both the 2015 GE results, the recent Holyrood elections and the voting pattern in Scotland just the other day.

Hopefully we won't be part of the UK for much longer, given this madness - but if it does hit the fan, as seems likely, then unlike England & Wales we should manage to extricate ourselves. I just feel sorry for the considerable number of voters in England and Wales who had the sense to vote Remain, and also those Leave voters who were conned by a combination of an incompetent PM and a bunch of self important liars.

You think you're going to be OK as an independent country or part of the EU?     

You'll end up like Greece, all washed up and your assets cheaply bought from you by the corporate elites. Trump's got his golf course; that's just the start of things.

[ippy]

Dear Nigel,

Just fuck the right off will you.

Yours etc,

Blue

It's possible you might alter your opinion a little if you heard the things Nigel actually says instead of the media's edited versions, the BBC edits him in very much the same as Hope does with our posts, a misquote, quoting out of context, etc.

ippy

[bluehillside Retd.]

ippy,

It's possible you might alter your opinion a little if you heard the things Nigel actually says instead of the media's edited versions, the BBC edits him in very much the same as Hope does with our posts, a misquote, quoting out of context, etc.

No it isn't. Farage has had a more or less permanent seat on Question Time in particular these last few years and his rabble-rousing, blame foreigners, racist, proto Mosleyite neo-fascism is perfectly clear to anyone with the ears to hear it.

[Jack Knave]

JK,

No, the irony was that the “running away” is being done by the Brexiters – specifically running away from the huge geopolitical issues that confront us by hiding in the garden shed in the hope that it’ll all go away.

So-called project fear said that certain consequences would follow, and they have – and then some as the likely break up of the Union was, if anything, underplayed. Whether these are short-term issues or the first steps to long term decline, increased risk and levelling out at about the same size economy and diplomatic influence of Slovakia is something neither you nor I know. What I do know is that the risk of this happening is significantly greater than it was a week ago.

I don't agree that the all the brexiters are running away from the problem.

I don't understand the Slovakia reference. Again I can't agree with your assessment. It is just a dip as we readjust. Just because a graph line is going down doesn't mean it will keep going down. Stiff upper lip old chap! 

Your “wonderful Nigel” is a populist rabble rouser of the worst kind, endlessly looking for people to blame for economic and social ills with no discernible understanding of the real causes of either, let alone of the solutions.

I find these comments from you of all people very strange. Totally unreasonable and thoughtless. Just mindless bile. He understands them very well which is why he talks total sense. His assessments are informed and well considered.
 

As for young people, what they’re responding to is the grim realisation that the freedoms and opportunities so hard won over recent decades and now treated as commonplace are about to be snatched away by an unholy alliance of little Englander right wing ideologues who will be long gone when it all comes crashing down and it’s left to those very young people to pick up the pieces – assuming there are still any pieces left. 

2030 History GSCE Paper 1
 
1. What went so badly wrong after the 2016 In/Out referendum?

2. Who was to blame?

3. Where are they now?

Blue this is a joke, yes? You're just playing with us? You can't be serious??

If not, give me details of what you are talking about. What "...freedoms and opportunities so hard won over recent decades and now treated as commonplace are about to be snatched away..."?

Comes crashing down - who says? At least wait and see before you pass judgement on a history which hasn't taken place yet.

The same as they were a few posts ago when I told you what they are.

What you gave was verbiage I meant evidence, hard facts.

[Jack Knave]

You are still a party to the decision.

I find it very interesting that you got what you wanted but you are very reluctant to accept the consequences of your decision.

The smiley was to show I was just joking around.

What I'm I reluctant to accept in the outcome of this referendum? Details please.

[Gordon]

You think you're going to be OK as an independent country or part of the EU?     

You'll end up like Greece, all washed up and your assets cheaply bought from you by the corporate elites. Trump's got his golf course; that's just the start of things.

When one is shackled to a sinking ship, and when the captain and crew of said ship are shown to be hapless incompetents who failed to notice the danger from the pirates approaching on the starboard bow (even though the pirates were all wearing 'I am a pirate' hats) then, if the opportunity presents itself, one should seek to undo the shackles.

[Jack Knave]

When one is shackled to a sinking ship, and when the captain and crew of said ship are shown to be hapless incompetents who failed to notice the danger from the pirates approaching on the starboard bow (even though the pirates were all wearing 'I am a pirate' hats) then, if the opportunity presents itself, one should seek to undo the shackles.

What you say is the way I see the EU. So in my books you would be jumping from a speedy, healthy ship to one full of holes and listing to one side. We would call out to you "Don't jump!" but if suicide is your fate what can we do?

[Gordon]

What you say is the way I see the EU. So in my books you would be jumping from a speedy, healthy ship to one full of holes and listing to one side. We would call out to you "Don't jump!" but if suicide is your fate what can we do?

You think the UK right now is a 'speedy, healthy ship' then - I don't think so!

Look at it this evening, in spite of the fact that there is a mess to be cleaned up one group in Westminster are playing musical chairs while some of the others are playing hide and seek.

[Jack Knave]

You think the UK right now is a 'speedy, healthy ship' then - I don't think so!

Look at it this evening, in spite of the fact that there is a mess to be cleaned up one group in Westminster are playing musical chairs while some of the others are playing hide and seek.

You're not looking at the bigger long term picture, Gordon. Yes, the crew are fighting amongst themselves to become captain of the ship and what not, and the rudder has been left to fling here and there as we drift, but the rum is free!!! 

[Gordon]

You're not looking at the bigger long term picture, Gordon. Yes, the crew are fighting amongst themselves to become captain of the ship and what not, and the rudder has been left to fling here and there as we drift, but the rum is free!!! 

The only 'picture' this reminds me of is a rather tacky old British farce: 'Carry on Brexit perhaps (with Sid James as Boris, Kenneth Williams as Nigel and Kenneth Connor as Hapless Dave).

[Walt Zingmatilder]

When one is shackled to a sinking ship, and when the captain and crew of said ship are shown to be hapless incompetents who failed to notice the danger from the pirates approaching on the starboard bow (even though the pirates were all wearing 'I am a pirate' hats) then, if the opportunity presents itself, one should seek to undo the shackles.

Are you suggesting we're in the poop.... deck?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

The only 'picture' this reminds me of is a rather tacky old British farce: 'Carry on Brexit perhaps (with Sid James as Boris, Kenneth Williams as Nigel and Kenneth Connor as Hapless Dave).

Joan Sims as Angela Merkel

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Check out the prescient lyrics on this.............

http://www.metrolyrics.com/making-plans-for-nigel-lyrics-xtc.html

[Gordon]

Are you suggesting we're in the poop.... deck?

Up to the gunnels, Vlad.

[ippy]

ippy,

No it isn't. Farage has had a more or less permanent seat on Question Time in particular these last few years and his rabble-rousing, blame foreigners, racist, proto Mosleyite neo-fascism is perfectly clear to anyone with the ears to hear it.

We are unlikely to agree on this one.

I've yet to see or hear the perfect politician.

I doubt I 'll ever vote for him if he stands for government, I only voted for him these past few years, because of his anti E U federation stance, I will now miss having any party to vote for as I don't have very much in common with any of them.

ippy

[jeremyp]

Lots of people couldn't afford to buy a house before Brexit, that's an ongoing and pre existing issue.

Yes, but there will now be more people than there were before.

And when I say "can't afford a house", I don't mean "can't afford to buy a house", I mean "can't afford to live in a house".

People are going to be poorer.