Scottish Independance

[Hope]

One thing that is obvious, to me at least, in that the only senior politician who is both visible and competently addressing the issues that concern her electorate, given the Scottish vote, is our First Minister.

But is she really addressing the issues that concern her electorate?  Remember, some 38% of the voting electorate voted to leave, and I've yet to hear anything from Nicola that makes me think she cares about them.

[Hope]

Yes, she is trying to lessen the negative impact on Scotland because the rest of the U.K. has chosen to leave the EU

Sorry, Rose, the referendum was a UK referendum, and the result was to leave.  Dismayed by that outcome as I am, this isn't a Scotland v the rest of the UK issue (after all, N. Ireland as a nation also voted to remain).  Perhaps she ought to do the honourable thing and resign as First Minister, triggering a new election that will occur in a post-EU context (perhaps the Welsh First Minister ought to, as well). 

[Gordon]

Sorry, Rose, the referendum was a UK referendum, and the result was to leave.  Dismayed by that outcome as I am, this isn't a Scotland v the rest of the UK issue (after all, N. Ireland as a nation also voted to remain).  Perhaps she ought to do the honourable thing and resign as First Minister, triggering a new election that will occur in a post-EU context (perhaps the Welsh First Minister ought to, as well).

Don't be daft: we've just had one! Not only that, the SNP position on the EU is known so why on earth is her position in response to recent events an issue given the clear consensus here where all the electoral areas voted remain.

You're right on one thing in that this was a Uk-wide vote and for many of us here it is the UK that is the problem: separation is a valid option for us now even more so than in 2014.

[Gordon]

But is she really addressing the issues that concern her electorate?  Remember, some 38% of the voting electorate voted to leave, and I've yet to hear anything from Nicola that makes me think she cares about them.

So what are you saying here? Sounds to me that you think that politicians elected to represent a constituency only care about the subset of people who supported them and their stated cause(s).

I've seen nothing to think this but presumably you have - so out with it. If you are accusing her of bias that is detectable from deepest Wales then us Scots should be told the details, so over to you.

[Bubbles]

Sorry, Rose, the referendum was a UK referendum, and the result was to leave.  Dismayed by that outcome as I am, this isn't a Scotland v the rest of the UK issue (after all, N. Ireland as a nation also voted to remain).  Perhaps she ought to do the honourable thing and resign as First Minister, triggering a new election that will occur in a post-EU context (perhaps the Welsh First Minister ought to, as well).

It was a uk referendum, and the result was leave.

However because the people in Scotland voted en masse to remain, she feels she needs to look after their interests as best she can.

I don't think she needs to resign, it wouldn't be the honourable thing for her to do.

The honourable thing for her to do is to look after her country best she can.

She is their first Minister, it's what she does, what she is supposed to do.

If Scotland can't avoid coming out, I'm sure she will fight hard to represent and get the best outcome she can for Scotland.

I'm not a supporter for independance, but I do see she has been handed a very difficult situation.

She has to do, what she has to do.

I can't blame her for wanting to represent Scotland because that's what she does ( independance aside for a moment).

[Nearly Sane]

Wow!



'An independent Scotland would be welcome to join the European Union, a senior German lawmaker and ally of Chancellor Angela Merkel has said after Britain's vote to leave the bloc, Reuters reports.

"The EU will still consist of 28 member states, as I expect a new independence referendum in Scotland, which will then be successful," said Gunther Krichbaum, a member of Ms Merkel's party and chairman of the European affairs committee in parliament.

"We should respond quickly to an application for admission from the EU-friendly country."

[Gonnagle]

Dear Forum,

The plan for this evening, I have a "fucking plan" watch the footie, go for a pint, come home, read a bit and then maybe tomorrow I will wake up and be back in Kansas

Gonnagle.

[Hope]

Wow!



'An independent Scotland would be welcome to join the European Union, a senior German lawmaker and ally of Chancellor Angela Merkel has said after Britain's vote to leave the bloc, Reuters reports.

"The EU will still consist of 28 member states, as I expect a new independence referendum in Scotland, which will then be successful," said Gunther Krichbaum, a member of Ms Merkel's party and chairman of the European affairs committee in parliament.

"We should respond quickly to an application for admission from the EU-friendly country."

Notice, a German lawmaker, not a Spanish or other nationality that has to contend with serious separatist groups.

[Nearly Sane]

Notice, a German lawmaker, not a Spanish or other nationality that has to contend with serious separatist groups.

By that logic given the new situation, Spain would have refused Czech Republic and Slovakia

[Hope]

By that logic given the new situation, Spain would have refused Czech Republic and Slovakia

They might well have done, though I seem to remember that that separation was based on rather more violent events than ever the Basques and Catalonians have been involved in.

[JP]

I see Nicola is off to talk to Juncker. Well, they certainly have something in common.

I wonder what they are going to talk about?

[Bubbles]

They might well have done, though I seem to remember that that separation was based on rather more violent events than ever the Basques and Catalonians have been involved in.

Really? Eta is a terrorist group.

The group was founded in 1959 and later evolved from a group promoting traditional Basque culture to a paramilitary group engaged in a violent campaign of bombing, assassinations and kidnappings in the Spanish Basque country and throughout Spanish territory. Its goal was gaining independence for the Greater Basque Country.[5][6]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETA_(separatist_group)

I don't know much about the Catalonian one, except I've only been there about three times and still got told off by a waiter for trying to speak Spanish because " we are not Spanish!, thank you very much " 

I was just a holiday maker, If it says Spain on my map..........

It's like telling off someone from abroad because they have asked for something in english in Wales ( Catalonia has its own language like Wales).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_language

It looks like they have a violent  ish group

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_Lliure

But I was aware of the sense of " separatist " when I went there, obviously.

People feel very strongly about these things, I think the separatists in Catalonia have taken the Brexit result and the possibility of Scotland being welcomed in as a positive step for them being recognised.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/06/catalan-president-keeps-keen-eye-on-britains-eu-referendum

I know my account is anecdotal, but it's what I found when I went there.

But then we don't tend to like touristy places and go more into the out of the way places and mix with the locals.

Eat in restaurants where the locals go.

Maybe that's why.

[Bubbles]

I see Nicola is off to talk to Juncker. Well, they certainly have something in common.

I wonder what they are going to talk about?

One guess?

Our ears should be burning 

[L.A.]

One guess?

Our ears should be burning 

You can't actually blame her, it makes perfect sense from the Scottish POV if she can get assurances of a rapid and sympathetic  response to a possible EU application from an independent Scotland.

[JP]

You can't actually blame her, it makes perfect sense from the Scottish POV if she can get assurances of a rapid and sympathetic  response to a possible EU application from an independent Scotland.

I would imagine Junker can assure her of nothing, there are rules that need to be applied and conditions that need to be met. What she is doing is comical. They are best friends through their mutual dislike.

[Bubbles]

You can't actually blame her, it makes perfect sense from the Scottish POV if she can get assurances of a rapid and sympathetic  response to a possible EU application from an independent Scotland.

I don't blame her.
On another thread I put:

What other option does she have? Given that most Scots voted to stay.

Even if you take independance out of the question altogether, I think she still has to do it.

Because she is representing the majority vote in Scotland.

She can't afford to have the same accusation thrown at her that was thrown at Jeremy Corbin, that she was ineffective.

She has to be seen to be pulling out all the stops even if it is hopeless.

I'm curious about the welcoming EU attitude to Scotland though, because I would have thought them recognising and welcoming Scottish independance would be far more encouraging for their  own separatist groups than us leaving the EU.

Perhaps they are just too cross with us to recognise that yet.

It might encourage other separatist movements to break away and hope to be recognised and treated the same way.

[jeremyp]

I'm curious about the welcoming EU attitude to Scotland though, because I would have thought them recognising and welcoming Scottish independance would be far more encouraging for their  own separatist groups than us leaving the EU.

Quite the reverse. The scenario is that the UK leaves the EU so Scotland leaves the UK in order to rejoin the EU. That sends the message to countries like Spain "if you leave the EU, you might lose those separatist regions, just like the UK did. Best thing is therefore not to leave the EU".

[JP]

Scotland would have to leave the UK first, trip today is to have a bitch with Junker

[Bubbles]

Quite the reverse. The scenario is that the UK leaves the EU so Scotland leaves the UK in order to rejoin the EU. That sends the message to countries like Spain "if you leave the EU, you might lose those separatist regions, just like the UK did. Best thing is therefore not to leave the EU".

Yes I see what you mean 

[L.A.]

I would imagine Junker can assure her of nothing, there are rules that need to be applied and conditions that need to be met. What she is doing is comical. They are best friends through their mutual dislike.

I think they can devise a positive sounding statement that will give Nicola what she wants.

[Bubbles]

Quite the reverse. The scenario is that the UK leaves the EU so Scotland leaves the UK in order to rejoin the EU. That sends the message to countries like Spain "if you leave the EU, you might lose those separatist regions, just like the UK did. Best thing is therefore not to leave the EU".

Ive looked into that a bit more and Scotland might have some problem getting accepted down to that very problem

All in all, Mendez de Vigo claimed, the situation for an independent Scotland would be tenuous and doubtful, with "more 'Ifs' than the Rudyard Kipling poem", he quipped.

José Manuel Barroso, the former commission president, and Herman Van Rompuy, the president of the European Council, have given similar warnings in recent months. Barroso angered members of the Yes campaign when he declared in February that it would be "extremely difficult, if not impossible" for a separate Scotland to join the EU, a viewpoint later supported by Van Rompuy.

The Spanish intervention comes in the wake of an escalation of activism from Catalonia, Spain's own separatist region. Last week 2 million Catalan protesters staged an independence march through the streets of Barcelona, the largest of its kind in European history.

http://europe.newsweek.com/spanish-minister-says-independent-scotland-unlikely-join-eu-or-keep-pound-270937

I know it's an old report but maybe not all member states would vote them in, plus all new states joining would have to accept the Euro.

[john]

It appears that Spain and France say they wont deal with Scotland. Jean Claud Junker has declined to meet with Nicola Sturgeon.

So it looks like that door has been slammed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36656980

[Hope]

I think they can devise a positive sounding statement that will give Nicola what she wants.

I think the wording would be along he lines of 'having her cake and eating it'!!

[Hope]

It appears that Spain and France say they wont deal with Scotland. Jean Claud Junker has declined to meet with Nicola Sturgeon.

So it looks like that door has been slammed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36656980

Saw that too, john. You beat me to posting the link.

[Nearly Sane]

It appears that Spain and France say they wont deal with Scotland. Jean Claud Junker has declined to meet with Nicola Sturgeon.

So it looks like that door has been slammed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36656980

So when Cameron said that he would invoke Article 50 immediately, that meant that door had been slammed?