Scottish Independance

[Gordon]

Saw that too, john. You beat me to posting the link.

Then you are both wrong: she met him today. It was Tusk who declined to meet her, for now anyway.

That the EU won't negotiate with Scotland while we are in the UK is no surprise since they see this as an internal UK issue - and that, hopefully, will change in due course.

[Udayana]

It appears that Spain and France say they wont deal with Scotland. Jean Claud Junker has declined to meet with Nicola Sturgeon.

So it looks like that door has been slammed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36656980

So that is a picture of Junker declining to meet her?

You can't just march in with requests for exceptions and special treatment, you need to build allies who will find ways to bring around the others when the time is right.

[jeremyp]

It appears that Spain and France say they wont deal with Scotland. Jean Claud Junker has declined to meet with Nicola Sturgeon.

So it looks like that door has been slammed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36656980

I interpret that as meaning they are not going to try any short circuit method of keeping Scotland in the EU while it is still part of the UK.

There's no reason why newly independent Scotland couldn't apply for and gain entry into the EU.

[Gordon]

So that is a picture of Junker declining to meet her?

You can't just march in with requests for exceptions and special treatment, you need to build allies who will find ways to bring around the others when the time is right.

Which is what she is doing.

It is quite telling that while Nicola is dealing with the key issue of Brexit in relation to Scotland, and exhibits the vision and leadership we expect in senior politicians, in comparison down in Westminster we see Labour spending all their time arranging a game of musical chairs while the Tories play hide and seek, and they've lost Boris.

I think we're lucky to have Nicola.

[Udayana]

Yes, she's brilliant in comparison with our lot. At the least, she thinks before sounding off 

[jeremyp]

Which is what she is doing.

It is quite telling that while Nicola is dealing with the key issue of Brexit in relation to Scotland, and exhibits the vision and leadership we expect in senior politicians, in comparison down in Westminster we see Labour spending all their time arranging a game of musical chairs while the Tories play hide and seek, and they've lost Boris.

I think we're lucky to have Nicola.

She is the only British political leader to come out of this sorry mess with any degree of credit.

[Nearly Sane]

She is the only British political leader to come out of this sorry mess with any degree of credit.

I don't think Farron, Lucas, or Wood have done badly, just not as well as Nicola. I've never been entirely convinced by her but the interview on the Sunday Politics Scotland was exemplary, even with the incorrect reporting.

[L.A.]

. . .
 and they've lost Boris.

If only!

[JP]

She is the only British political leader to come out of this sorry mess with any degree of credit.

How ya reckon that?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

and they've lost Boris.

Boris is alive and well and living in Uruguay under the name of Alejandro deBoJo DePfeffelito and Gove is Signor Cohone Sinestro and they have a dog act called Los Wankeros.

[jeremyp]

I don't think Farron, Lucas, or Wood have done badly

Would you describe those people as political leaders? I had to Google Farron and I assume Lucas is Caroline Lucas. No idea who this Wood person is.

The Lib Dems, Greens and whoever this Wood person's party is were conspicuous only by their absence in the Referendum campaign.

Update: I figured out it's Leanne Wood, leader of Plaid Cymru. Since I don't live in Wales, I'll withdraw my criticism of her. Perhaps she was at the forefront of campaigning there.

[Udayana]

They all spoke up and campaigned within the limits of their resources and media attention. Saw more of them than of Corbyn!

[Hope]

No idea who this Wood person is.

The Lib Dems, Greens and whoever this Wood person's party is were conspicuous only by their absence in the Referendum campaign.

As your update indicates - Leanne, leader of Plaid Cymru.  Not only did she speak out very vocally for Remain, as did the Lib. Dems and the Greens, she also appeared in the famous 'party leaders' TV debate before the General Election last year - and did pretty well according to the post-event polls.

[Hope]

She is the only British political leader to come out of this sorry mess with any degree of credit.

To come out of the debacle with any credit, one has to accept that the UK spoke as the UK, not try to make out that its component parts (including Gibraltar) spoke for themselves.  I'd put Nicola pretty far down the 'credit' list - though not as far as Corbyn.

[Gordon]

To come out of the debacle with any credit, one has to accept that the UK spoke as the UK, not try to make out that its component parts (including Gibraltar) spoke for themselves.

Some of us don't accept that, since we spoke differently, and see quite clearly that some of the English and Welsh voters have disadvantaged us here in Scotland - and some of us here aren't too pleased about that.

I'd put Nicola pretty far down the 'credit' list - though not as far as Corbyn.

I doubt that will worry her unduly, and you seem to have missed the fact that while Nicola is trying to deal with the main issue (enforced Brexit) the Labour and Tory parties in Westminster seem more preoccupied in playing party games among themselves (musical chairs being the preferred game).

[Hope]

Some of us don't accept that, since we spoke differently, and see quite clearly that some of the English and Welsh voters have disadvantaged us here in Scotland - and some of us here aren't too pleased about that.

So, are you suggesting that the question wasn't 'Should the UK leave or remain?'

I doubt that will worry her unduly, and you seem to have missed the fact that while Nicola is trying to deal with the main issue (enforced Brexit) the Labour and Tory parties in Westminster seem more preoccupied in playing party games among themselves (musical chairs being the preferred game).

Nicola doesn't have to worry because Scotland doesn't control the UK; it only controls itself, to a degree.  Westminster does control the UK.  It is therefore imperative that they find the best people to guide us through the morass that the Brexit vote has left the UK, including Scotland and N. Ireland, in - both as Government and Opposition.

[jeremyp]

To come out of the debacle with any credit, one has to accept that the UK spoke as the UK,

But the UK didn't speak as the UK. Opinion in Scotland was much more strongly Remain than opinion in England was Leave. Trying to deny this strikes me as fantasy.

[jeremyp]

To come out of the debacle with any credit, one has to accept that the UK spoke as the UK, not try to make out that its component parts (including Gibraltar) spoke for themselves.  I'd put Nicola pretty far down the 'credit' list - though not as far as Corbyn.

In fact, even in England, opinion was split almost 50/50. It's pretty obvious now that the UK did not speak as one.

[Gordon]

So, are you suggesting that the question wasn't 'Should the UK leave or remain?'

I know what the question was, having read the ballot paper.
   

Nicola doesn't have to worry because Scotland doesn't control the UK; it only controls itself, to a degree.  Westminster does control the UK.  It is therefore imperative that they find the best people to guide us through the morass that the Brexit vote has left the UK, including Scotland and N. Ireland, in - both as Government and Opposition.

I think Nicola has plenty of reasons to worry, as do many of us here in Scotland, at us being compromised in this way - which is why many of us feel that we should now abandon the sinking UK ship having been told in 2014 that staying in the UK meant staying in the EU.

Are you seriously suggesting, after this mismanaged disaster, that the 'best people' are to be found in the Tory party: I don't think so, given that they are responsible for allowing this referendum to happen at all.

 

[JP]

The country can never speak as one.

[JP]

Simple way to end this. Have another referendum now.

[Nearly Sane]

The country can never speak as one.

Other than North Korea, do any countries?

[Nearly Sane]

Simple way to end this. Have another referendum now.

Way too complex - there is only one way to do it.... Fight.....

[jakswan]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36673126

Doesn't look pretty, I almost feel sorry for Sturgeon, wait..... phew feeling passed.

Looks like it will have to be on for next summer if at all, but then voting will take place amongst inconclusive EU/UK relationship.

[JP]

Oh sorry NS, I thought we were discussing the UK. Are you starting a democracy in North Korea thread?