Scottish Independance

[JP]

Rose thinks Scotland will remain as it is. Not becone independant.

[Nearly Sane]

Rose thinks Scotland will remain as it is. Not becone independant.

In part because that is how it is now. Just as how Scotland is in the EU now.

[JP]

Ah well, the whole thing is very pedestrian. Its like a Monty Python sketch.

[Nearly Sane]

Ah well, the whole thing is very pedestrian. Its like a Monty Python sketch.

You mean this isn't the board for an argument?

[L.A.]

You mean this isn't the board for an argument?

No sorry This is abuse!

[Jack Knave]

But they are still not the same thing.  One is a currency, the other a political and economic system.  Remember that the EU existed for about 10 years before the Euro was introduced.

So you are saying if the Euro collapses the EU will just carry on as a separate entity? They are part and parcel of the same political project. They are symbiotic, they are joined at the hip.

[Jack Knave]

That is a blatant lie.

Look up which countries are in the Euro and which countries are in the EU. The two lists are not identical.

That's beside the point. The fact is the Euro or a single currency was there right at the start in the Treaty of Rome. It is part of the utopian EU's big political project that was started then.

[Jack Knave]

so my sacking of 19 people today, nothing to do with the declared effect of Brexit. My vote has no consequence - it didn't win. Thank you for the effect of yours of those 19 people I sacked today

What's your point? These things happen. Are you saying no one has ever lost their job because of the wonderful EU?

[jeremyp]

That's beside the point.

No it isn't.

The fact is the Euro or a single currency was there right at the start in the Treaty of Rome. It is part of the utopian EU's big political project that was started then.

You mean the aspiration was there.

As it happens, only 19 of the EU members use the Euro and some small states not in the EU also use it. The Eurozone and the EU are not the same thing no matter how much frothing at the mouth you do.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Mixed up and totally confused over Brexit,

It has been suggested that the forum have a debate with only two members and that we could have a separate thread running to discuss the debate.

As this brexit nonsense debacle debate has left us all confused, angry, saddened, I nominate Jeremyp and Jack Knave to go head to head in a friendly ( cough ) debate over the issue.

I have tried to read both the above gentlemen's posts regarding the issue and have found I agree with both posters on certain issues ( yes I am still heavily on the side of Jeremyp ) but if the two posters are willing to put their case in a clear and precise manner I am sure it would help us all to be more informed and educated over the whole issue.

This brexit issue is not going away anytime soon and I know it is a highly charged issue, it has divided the country, but if we could have a civilised ( another cough ) debate between two of our highly respected members over the issue it could help us all understand the issue more clearly.

Of course other posters have posted some cracking posts on the issue so maybe they would like to take up the challenge, or OR!! maybe we could have team efforts, two teams going head to head but with only two nominated posters to voice the debate.

Just a thought

Gonnagle.

[jeremyp]

Dear Mixed up and totally confused over Brexit,

It has been suggested that the forum have a debate with only two members and that we could have a separate thread running to discuss the debate.

As this brexit nonsense debacle debate has left us all confused, angry, saddened, I nominate Jeremyp and Jack Knave to go head to head in a friendly ( cough ) debate over the issue.

I have tried to read both the above gentlemen's posts regarding the issue and have found I agree with both posters on certain issues ( yes I am still heavily on the side of Jeremyp ) but if the two posters are willing to put their case in a clear and precise manner I am sure it would help us all to be more informed and educated over the whole issue.

This brexit issue is not going away anytime soon and I know it is a highly charged issue, it has divided the country, but if we could have a civilised ( another cough ) debate between two of our highly respected members over the issue it could help us all understand the issue more clearly.

Of course other posters have posted some cracking posts on the issue so maybe they would like to take up the challenge, or OR!! maybe we could have team efforts, two teams going head to head but with only two nominated posters to voice the debate.

Just a thought

Gonnagle.

I don't think there's any point in Jack Knave and I having a debate, but I am quite happy to write the case for why we should have stayed in the EU and post it. It'll take me a few days to do a proper job though.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Jeremyp,

I for one would be grateful if you could take the time to do just that, I voted remain but the issue for me has highlighted the fact that we as country allowed the EU  to sail on without anyone actually questioning what they were up to, the remain campaigns logo was "remain and Reform" so I am wondering reform what, Jack Knave tells us this was not possible, to corrupt, unable to reform, in fact if I have it right, Jack Knave says the job is still incomplete as he wants to see the whole edifice come crashing down.

I also note that you have started another thread on how to fix the EU, and asked for it to be a civilised debate, which was kind of like something I was looking for.

Gonnagle.

[Jack Knave]

Dear Jeremyp,

I for one would be grateful if you could take the time to do just that, I voted remain but the issue for me has highlighted the fact that we as country allowed the EU  to sail on without anyone actually questioning what they were up to, the remain campaigns logo was "remain and Reform" so I am wondering reform what, Jack Knave tells us this was not possible, to corrupt, unable to reform, in fact if I have it right, Jack Knave says the job is still incomplete as he wants to see the whole edifice come crashing down.

I also note that you have started another thread on how to fix the EU, and asked for it to be a civilised debate, which was kind of like something I was looking for.

Gonnagle.

But who do you think should be doing the questioning, Gonny?

The politicians? They were/are in cohorts with Brussels, who were paying them off in some manner to keep them on board. So we got lies about the EU and were taken deep into it without our consent. The only people flagging this up were UKIP, but they just got all the usual PC abusive rhetoric which was manufactured to try to close the debate down and create a false impression of them - hence Gordon Brown calling Mrs Duffy a bigot and the dog whistle phrase "Racist". 

You should have given UKIP more respect and listened to what they were saying.

[floo]

The nasty racist UKIP deserves no respect whatsoever, only condemnation!

[Hope]

I voted remain but the issue for me has highlighted the fact that we as country allowed the EU  to sail on without anyone actually questioning what they were up to, ... the remain campaigns logo was "remain and Reform" so I am wondering reform what, Jack Knave tells us this was not possible, to corrupt, unable to reform, in fact if I have it right, Jack Knave says the job is still incomplete as he wants to see the whole edifice come crashing down.

Hi Gonners, I've been a member of 3 or 4 groups that have been campaigning to the reform of the EU for quite some time now.  One is a largely UK group; the others are international ones, like Avaaz, 38 degrees and others of that ilk.   I get the impression that, unfortunately, too few ordinary citizens of Europe as a whole have appreciated or been aware of their activities.