Where's Boris?

[jeremyp]

And there's your answer - purple is the colour of UKIP!!!!

Because it's full of bell ends.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

When Boris announced he wasn't going to stand it felt like I had just had a satisfying shit and got rid of something which didn't agree with me.

[Brownie]

  Vlad.

Boris said, regarding the next PM: ''The person cannot be me''.
The world and his wife are attributing all sorts of reasons why, but I think that statement sums up his reason well enough.  Other things/people may have contributed to the decision but I've no doubt the idea of being PM didn't sit well with him.  So imo he's made the right decision regardless of how much of an explosion Michael Heseltine and others are making.

I quite like Teresa May and Stephen Crabbe, from what I know of them.  Teresa May is more familiar to me than Mr Crabbe - but it's not up to me and I'm not a Tory so have no say anyway. as long as it's not somebody too sinister, it doesn't bother me personally.

Can't wait for QT tonight.  I've booked me seat in front of the telly for 10.45.  It's from Preston so there will be a robust audience, mainly Brexiters.   The panel is (subject to last minute changes I suppose):
Conservative education minister Sam Gyimah MP, Labour's shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry MP, Ukip's Douglas Carswell MP, comedian Russell Kane and the Times columnist Melanie Phillips.

[jeremyp]

Boris said, regarding the next PM: ''The person cannot be me''.
The world and his wife are attributing all sorts of reasons why, but I think that statement sums up his reason well enough.  Other things/people may have contributed to the decision but I've no doubt the idea of being PM didn't sit well with him.  So imo he's made the right decision regardless of how much of an explosion Michael Heseltine and others are making.

If only he had been more thoughtful when he first made his decision to back Leave in order to further his political ambition.

He's walking away because he knows he is finished. Triggering article 50  will lead to the break up of the UK and would be disaster for the Conservative leader who makes it happen.

[Nearly Sane]

A Dead Statesman

I could not dig; I dared not rob:
Therefore I lied to please the mob.
Now all my lies are proved untrue
And I must face the men I slew.
What tale shall serve me here among
Mine angry and defrauded young?


Rudyard Kipling

[Brownie]

That's a very moving poem NS.  But....nobody has died because Boris has left the leadership contest, nor because of his Brexit stance.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Sane,

Ah Kipling!!

Mine angry and defrauded young?

Nothing new under the sun, it is our young who will have to pick up the pieces, when will we ever learn.

One for Jeremy Corbyn.

The bits in bold especially.

IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
' Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

No not Gonnagle, Kipling.

[Nearly Sane]

That's a very moving poem NS.  But....nobody has died because Boris has left the leadership contest, nor because of his Brexit stance.

It's called a metaphor - he isn't dead either

[L.A.]

I think for Boris the great Kipling mis-quotation is more appropriate:

"IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs , you obviously don't know what is going on."

[wigginhall]

A Dead Statesman

I could not dig; I dared not rob:
Therefore I lied to please the mob.
Now all my lies are proved untrue
And I must face the men I slew.
What tale shall serve me here among
Mine angry and defrauded young?


Rudyard Kipling

Very good poem, and quite apt.  I keep thinking of Shakespeare as well, a combination of Julius Caesar and Macbeth, backstabbing, weak leaders, hubris, buffoonery.   But at least they had a sort of grandeur - here we have a bunch of second-rate gangsters, whipping up the mob, and then trying to placate them.    I knew Boris was doomed when I saw Zac Goldsmith in the room.  (Oh, I forgot Mrs Mcgove).

[Jack Knave]

I think the f'g plan is the extricate ourselves from the EU.  Just what that will involve is an unknown quantity as nothing like this has happened before.  The Vote Leave campaign don't appear to have done their homework for the result they wanted - whilst Cameron seems to have had a plan for his purposes.  As for the oft-repeated accusations about Conservative in-fighting, it seems to me that the fault lies no less at the feet of Labour who have purposefully ignored and avoided the split on the EU within their membership.

They had no need to they weren't in power. And that is where the referendum failed. They should have been given a mandate to implement Brexit in the event of them winning substantially - which they did with 17 million votes. The Conservatives got 11 million votes in 2015.

In my view that mandate and manifesto task should have gone to UKIP and other long standing anti-EU peoples. Then we wouldn't have this farce where we don't know when Art 50 is going to be triggered and people wondering what's going to happen next.

[Nearly Sane]

They had no need to they weren't in power. And that is where the referendum failed. They should have been given a mandate to implement Brexit in the event of them winning substantially - which they did with 17 million votes. The Conservatives got 11 million votes in 2015.

In my view that mandate and manifesto task should have gone to UKIP and other long standing anti-EU peoples. Then we wouldn't have this farce where we don't know when Art 50 is going to be triggered and people wondering what's going to happen next.

which would be a completely different referendum  so you cannot claim the result as backing it. And that is leaving aside that it's constitutionally ludicrous.

[ProfessorDavey]

They should have been given a mandate to implement Brexit ...

Which version of Brexit - there are loads, and we can only pick one and no single Brexit plan has a mandate.

You voted leave (I presume ). Are you in favour of the EEA version of Brexit, as per Norway - access to single market, free movement of labour, still net contributor to the EU, bound by approx. 90% of the EU regulations etc etc.

This is one version of Brexit (quote possibly the one we will end up with). Is this the version you voted for JK?

[wigginhall]

Good points from Prof. D.   It reminds me that there is no such thing as Christianity, but only Christianities.  So there are different versions of Brexit.  Apparently, Boris in his latest Telegraph column was veering back to a more liberal view of it, and this alarmed hard Brexit people.   Quote, 'that's not the Brexit I voted for'.

Another point - we didn't vote on immigration, or trade deals, or anything specific, so people have been filling in the gaps in different ways.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Good points from Prof. D.   It reminds me that there is no such thing as Christianity, but only Christianities.  So there are different versions of Brexit.  Apparently, Boris in his latest Telegraph column was veering back to a more liberal view of it, and this alarmed hard Brexit people.   Quote, 'that's not the Brexit I voted for'.

Another point - we didn't vote on immigration, or trade deals, or anything specific, so people have been filling in the gaps in different ways.

Ah yes but nothing is enshrined in scripture (The ballot paper).

I think Bricksitters were expecting some kind of Pentecost at the St Ermin Hotel.

[jeremyp]

Which version of Brexit - there are loads, and we can only pick one and no single Brexit plan has a mandate.

You voted leave (I presume ). Are you in favour of the EEA version of Brexit, as per Norway - access to single market, free movement of labour, still net contributor to the EU, bound by approx. 90% of the EU regulations etc etc.

This is one version of Brexit (quote possibly the one we will end up with). Is this the version you voted for JK?

I'd be interested to know how many Brexit voters would have voted for Brexit if they had realised that the version we are likely to get is the Norway model.

[ProfessorDavey]

I'd be interested to know how many Brexit voters would have voted for Brexit if they had realised that the version we are likely to get is the Norway model.

No idea, and thats the problem - the referendum asked what people were against (the EU) it didn't ask people what they were for, unless it was the EU.

And actually that's the real issue for Leavers and mandate - the 52% is the high water mark but it united people in what they were against. As soon as you start to propose actual post-Brexit models that 52% will schism - between the free market libertarians, the 'no foreigners here mate' and the 'UK should rule itself' factions. There is no model that can possibly please all because they are mutually incompatible in the real world.

So mandate and consensus will end up coalescing around the plan which is acceptable to remainers (or perhaps least unacceptable), because thats the only way to build back to a majority from the schism. And in reality the only option is EEA.

[Jack Knave]

Which version of Brexit - there are loads, and we can only pick one and no single Brexit plan has a mandate.

You voted leave (I presume ). Are you in favour of the EEA version of Brexit, as per Norway - access to single market, free movement of labour, still net contributor to the EU, bound by approx. 90% of the EU regulations etc etc.

This is one version of Brexit (quote possibly the one we will end up with). Is this the version you voted for JK?

I explained that in my post. UKIP  + others would lead the leave campaign and prepare a manifesto on which the people would vote. And on winning they would carryout the negotiations.

[Jack Knave]

Good points from Prof. D.   It reminds me that there is no such thing as Christianity, but only Christianities.  So there are different versions of Brexit.  Apparently, Boris in his latest Telegraph column was veering back to a more liberal view of it, and this alarmed hard Brexit people.   Quote, 'that's not the Brexit I voted for'.

Another point - we didn't vote on immigration, or trade deals, or anything specific, so people have been filling in the gaps in different ways.

We voted to leave to control things ourselves.

[Nearly Sane]

I explained that in my post. UKIP  + others would lead the leave campaign and prepare a manifesto on which the people would vote. And on winning they would carryout the negotiations.

and then you woke up

[Gordon]

I explained that in my post. UKIP  + others would lead the leave campaign and prepare a manifesto on which the people would vote. And on winning they would carryout the negotiations.

What mandate does Numpty Nigel have to negotiate on, say, my behalf?

[jeremyp]

No idea, and thats the problem - the referendum asked what people were against (the EU) it didn't ask people what they were for, unless it was the EU.

And actually that's the real issue for Leavers and mandate - the 52% is the high water mark but it united people in what they were against. As soon as you start to propose actual post-Brexit models that 52% will schism - between the free market libertarians, the 'no foreigners here mate' and the 'UK should rule itself' factions. There is no model that can possibly please all because they are mutually incompatible in the real world.

So mandate and consensus will end up coalescing around the plan which is acceptable to remainers (or perhaps least unacceptable), because thats the only way to build back to a majority from the schism. And in reality the only option is EEA.

Completely agree and, in retrospect, it is shameful that nobody, not the Leavers, not the Remainers, not the media addressed this issue properly in the run up to the vote.

The Norway type deal will probably get the nod because, if ignoring the referendum is not an option, at least 48% of the people would take that one. Everyone's a loser, baby.

[Jack Knave]

No idea, and thats the problem - the referendum asked what people were against (the EU) it didn't ask people what they were for, unless it was the EU.

It did not ask that. It asked if you wanted to leave the EU. 17 million said yes. Therefore, leave we must do.

[jeremyp]

I explained that in my post. UKIP  + others would lead the leave campaign and prepare a manifesto on which the people would vote.

Well UKIP didn't lead the leave campaign and they have no manifesto. Perhaps you should have been more forthright.

And on winning they would carryout the negotiations.

I wouldn't put Farage in charge of the Christmas card list. Apart from the fact that he is a mendacious fraud, everybody in continental Europe hates him. I mean he is totally despised.

[Jack Knave]

and then you woke up

You do come out with some incomprehensible turd churning rubbish.