Red on Red, Labour implode

[Jack Knave]

You are forever ranting about the Neo-Liberal project so what are you actually referring to Jack?

According to Wiki:

"Neoliberalism (or sometimes neo-liberalism) refers primarily to the 20th century resurgence of 19th century ideas associated with laissez-faire economic liberalism. These include extensive economic liberalization policies such as privatization, fiscal austerity, deregulation, free trade, and reductions in government spending in order to enhance the role of the private sector in the economy.The implementation of neoliberal policies and the acceptance of neoliberal economic theories in the 1970s are seen by some academics as the root of financialization, with the financial crisis of 2007–08 as one of the ultimate results."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

So are these really the things that you object to or have you just latched-on to the catchphrase?

As a Brexiteer, I would have thought you would be rather in favour of free-trade?

"Free Trade" - Now who's latching on to phrases without knowing what they mean.

Yes, when I refer to Neo-Liberalism that is what I mean. And yes, I'm against them because they are not capitalism, free trade or market driven but amount to socialism or fascism (a few ruling the many) by the back door by using what people accept to achieve their aims. Similarly, political correctness ideas have been taken over by them to 'brainwash'  the masses to do what they want - wolves in sheep clothing and all that. And...COP 21 I believe was sponsored by the coal and oil industries; why?

[Jack Knave]

Dear Jeremyp,
So we have a new thread, What makes a great leader, it is most certainly not plastic, plastic see through, plastic see through Tory/Farage lite Smith.

A quality of a great leader, someone who stands by his convictions.

Gonnagle.

You won't find any either in Brussels.

[jeremyp]

Ronald McDonald hospices on NHS grounds, it's all their, the evidence is out there.

I'd really like to see the evidence that "Ronald McDonald" hospices are going to be a thing.

[jeremyp]

You won't find any either in Brussels.

Nigel Farage works in Brussels.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Jeremyp,

I'm afraid not, boom and bust capitalism is just part of reality. That's the way the World is.

Sorry I missed this post from you, anyone else agree that boom and bust is just something we accept, part of reality, when the bankers go tits up we all have to accept it, this is just part of reality.

Gonnagle.

[L.A.]

Nigel Farage works in Brussels.

I'm not aware that he's ever did any work there.

[Jack Knave]

Nigel Farage works in Brussels.

The term Brussels doesn't mean the EP, it means the rest of them; the technocrats and all the other wankers. The EP is a façade for the pretence of looking like a democratic system - it's a joke.

[Jack Knave]

Dear Jeremyp,

Sorry I missed this post from you, anyone else agree that boom and bust is just something we accept, part of reality, when the bankers go tits up we all have to accept it, this is just part of reality.

Gonnagle.

The question isn't whether we should accept boom and bust, as we will always have it, it is the issue of how bad the peaks and troughs should be allowed to reach. Our present financial Neo-Liberal ideology has a massive dose of arrogance in it which thinks it can stop these booms and busts and because of this blind spot they have when things do go tits up it is the people who pay for it and our feudal lords then carry on as usual as if nothing untoward has happened - total denial.

[Jack Knave]

I'm not aware that he's ever did any work there.

That's a reflection of your capacities not his.

[jeremyp]

Dear Jeremyp,

Sorry I missed this post from you, anyone else agree that boom and bust is just something we accept, part of reality, when the bankers go tits up we all have to accept it, this is just part of reality.

Gonnagle.

I thought you meant Boom and Bust in the Gordon Brown sense. The economy will always have long periods of growth interspersed with shocks. It's been happening since people started recording these things.

[jeremyp]

I'm not aware that he's ever did any work there.

It takes a lot of effort to fill in your expenses claim

[jeremyp]

The term Brussels doesn't mean the EP, it means the rest of them; the technocrats and all the other wankers. The EP is a façade for the pretence of looking like a democratic system - it's a joke.

Goal post moving. You forgot about Farage so now you are trying to back track.

[Jack Knave]

Goal post moving. You forgot about Farage so now you are trying to back track.

Just clarifying what I meant.

[jeremyp]

Just clarifying what I meant.

You mean you forgot about Farage so now you are trying to backtrack.

[Jack Knave]

You mean you forgot about Farage so now you are trying to backtrack.

See previous post.

[L.A.]

"Free Trade" - Now who's latching on to phrases without knowing what they mean.

Yes, when I refer to Neo-Liberalism that is what I mean. And yes, I'm against them because they are not capitalism, free trade or market driven but amount to socialism or fascism (a few ruling the many) by the back door by using what people accept to achieve their aims. Similarly, political correctness ideas have been taken over by them to 'brainwash'  the masses to do what they want - wolves in sheep clothing and all that. And...COP 21 I believe was sponsored by the coal and oil industries; why?

I'd certainly agree that 'Free Trade' is a term that may have many meanings depending on your pov. Most people, for example, wouldn't want to give the Chinese the freedom to dump their surplus steel on the UK market, but generally, I would say that 'Free Trade' should mean removing as many tariff barriers as possible

It's a complicated area, but I think that would be pretty much the intention of those you call the  'Neo-Liberals'.

So, having clarified my position as far as possible, I totally fail to see how this any of this could amount to 'Socialism or Fascism' or how 'Political Correctness'  or Climate change would be relevant?

[jeremyp]

Most people, for example, wouldn't want to give the Chinese the freedom to dump their surplus steel on the UK market,

The people in British companies that depend on steel as a raw material would love their steel to be much cheaper, especially if they manufacture products that compete with the products of other companies in countries that do allow cheap Chinese steel in. That's probably why the UK government vetoed EU attempts to stop the Chinese from dumping steel in EU countries.

Anybody who thinks Brexit will help us save the steel industry is deluded. This will probably finish it off.

[Jack Knave]

I'd certainly agree that 'Free Trade' is a term that may have many meanings depending on your pov. Most people, for example, wouldn't want to give the Chinese the freedom to dump their surplus steel on the UK market, but generally, I would say that 'Free Trade' should mean removing as many tariff barriers as possible

It's a complicated area, but I think that would be pretty much the intention of those you call the  'Neo-Liberals'.

So, having clarified my position as far as possible, I totally fail to see how this any of this could amount to 'Socialism or Fascism' or how 'Political Correctness'  or Climate change would be relevant?

You need to look at the bigger picture. The phrase "Wolves in sheep's clothing" should have given you a big clue.

What is the basic make up of socialism and fascism? When you answer that you'll be on your way to understanding what I'm saying.

[jakswan]

First Labour Hustings as JC goes up against OS.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV94oTdcs-A

[Gonnagle]

Dear Jakswan,

Thanks for the link, very interesting debate but it just reinforces my opinion of Smith, Corbyn was the one who came across as the most honest, Smith's argument that Corbyn doesn't appeal to all Labour supporters, which Labour supporters would they be, only ones I can think of are those still stuck in old Blairite ways, a kind of Torylite Labour supporter.

If I had to vote for any of those two gentlemen it would be Corbyn, he seems the more honest, down to earth and I do like his ten point manifesto, apart from no 8, what is a progressive tax system?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-kGgIyzDaM

This is how you put the country back on its feet, investment, not austerity.

Gonnagle.

[Harrowby Hall]

 apart from no 8, what is a progressive tax system?

Gonnagle.

It's one where everyone's tax burden is fair and equitable unless you are a Glaswegian named Gonnagle when you pay three times as much as anyone else.

[jakswan]

Smith's argument that Corbyn doesn't appeal to all Labour supporters, which Labour supporters would they be,

The ones that win elections.

[Hope]

With the result due at middday today, one wonders whether the media's concentration on Corbyn, as most likely to win right from the start of the campaign, has meant that Owen Smith's campaign has been under reported.  Even here in Wales, whenever the news reports have turned to the leadership election, Smith and his thoughts have often come second on the reporting ladder and often for less time than Corbyn.

Whatever the outcome, can we now get back to having a vaguely proper opposition - which we sort of had prior to the 2015 G.E. and Labour leadership campaigns?

[Hope]

This is how you put the country back on its feet, investment, not austerity.

Whilst I'd agree in principle, Gonners, one can'y invest if one hasn't got the money in the first place, and borrowing to invest isn't necessarily the cure-all some would like us to believe.

[Hope]

Anybody who thinks Brexit will help us save the steel industry is deluded. This will probably finish it off.

It was all-but finished off long before the argues over Brexit started in earnest.  The only steel industry we have worth speaking about is very high quality stuff that has very specific uses.