Second referendum the problems it would cause.

[Bubbles]

Hunt calls for EU reform and second referendum: Health Secretary says any deal to control borders should be put to another vote
Jeremy Hunt is preparing to stand as candidate to succeed David Cameron
He called for the next PM to be allowed to 'negotiate a deal' with Brussels
Urged 'sensible compromise' to restrict the free movement of EU migrants
Idea met with anger as it would overturn democratic will of Leave voters


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3663184/Hunt-calls-EU-reform-second-referendum-Health-Secretary-says-deal-control-borders-vote.html#ixzz4CrIcMxYa
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As I've said I'm with the PM on this one, I think it is undemocratic.

However knowing how strongly some of you feel, I can only suggest you write to this MP and make him aware of your support.

Getting angry here isn't doing anything about it, I'm not sure it's healthy tbh.

You need to talk or write to him. That's what they are there for, and at least you would get a sympathetic ear which you might not get from your own MP, even if the did vote remain.

http://www.jeremyhunt.org

The anger here, needs a release.

Meanwhile we could discuss the possible outcome of a second referendum and how that might be seen by the public at large.

I think you might have a riot on your hands.

[L.A.]

As I've said I'm with the PM on this one, I think it is undemocratic.

However knowing how strongly some of you feel, I can only suggest you write to this MP and make him aware of your support.

Getting angry here isn't doing anything about it, I'm not sure it's healthy tbh.

You need to talk or write to him. That's what they are there for, and at least you would get a sympathetic ear which you might not get from your own MP, even if the did vote remain.

http://www.jeremyhunt.org

The anger here, needs a release.

Meanwhile we could discuss the possible outcome of a second referendum and how that might be seen by the public at large.

I think you might have a riot on your hands.

Its not just undemocratic, it's impractical. He'd never get the support and I doubt there are the legal mechanisms to pull it off.

[floo]

I suspect there will be a lot of calls for a second referendum when people have the blinkers removed from their eyes, and realise what a terrible mess we are now in.

[L.A.]

I suspect there will be a lot of calls for a second referendum when people have the blinkers removed from their eyes, and realise what a terrible mess we are now in.

I have talked to people who voted for Leave and they now admit that they had no idea what they were voting for. If they had a second vote I think there is no doubt the way it would go - but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any mechanism to do that.

[ProfessorDavey]

Its not just undemocratic, it's impractical. He'd never get the support and I doubt there are the legal mechanisms to pull it off.

Whether or not it is undemocratic there are no issues from a legal perspective. The referendum was advisory and the government therefore can accept it, ignore it or even decide that (for whatever reason) the result is unsound and the referendum needs to be re-run.

Not saying this is necessarily advisable but remember the UK government is sovereign (isn't that what we kept being told by the Brexiters) and therefore has the authority to make a final decision.

Personally I do think the result is unsound - the margin of victory was small and therefore there was no clear view from the UK electorate. Is it advisable to make such an irreversible and momentous change on the votes of 37% of the electorate, and less than one quarter of the population. And it is clear that many people now regret voting leave, largely because they've realised that they were being sold lies.

Problem is that these issues should have been thought through in advance.

[L.A.]

Problem is that these issues should have been thought through in advance.

Yes that's for sure, if anyone tries to reverse the process now they will have a hell of an uphill struggle.

[jeremyp]

Problem is that these issues should have been thought through in advance.

They were by Nigel Farage and others in the Leave camp. Back in May he said we should have another referendum if the margin was this small.

In my opinion, there can be a second referendum, after all this is a democracy. However, something needs to change so that we might reasonably expect the result to be reversed.

If the EU offered us a deal on immigration (not going to happen) or opinion polls showed an overwhelming swing to the Remain camp, but not in the current circumstances.

The fact that the BBC found a few people who voted Leave just to kick David Cameron in the balls or who wanted to stay in but didn't bother to vote tells us nothing except these people are fucking idiots who should not be allowed a say in important decisions.

[L.A.]

I think there is no doubt that an opinion poll today would show a massive shift to Remain. The people I know who voted Leave either didn't understand the issues (they do now!) or were scared by immigration, one guy just didn't like Poles!

But Cameron seems to have closed the door on that option.

[jeremyp]

But Cameron seems to have closed the door on that option.

Cameron's view is irrelevant. It's the next prime minister who will have to close the door or not. And, by the way, Cameron deliberately engineered it that way.

[L.A.]

Cameron's view is irrelevant. It's the next prime minister who will have to close the door or not. And, by the way, Cameron deliberately engineered it that way.

Possibly, but with no clear legitimate course of action, the process would face a lot of opposition and could drag on for years, and during that time the instability and de investment would just drag our economy further and further into the mire.

We have to start from where we are and the most direct way out of our mess is just to get a 'Norway deal' with all it's short-comings then we can start to re-build our country.

[jeremyp]

Possibly, but with no clear legitimate course of action, the process would face a lot of opposition and could drag on for years, and during that time the instability and de investment would just drag our economy further and further into the mire.

We don't know the political landscape in three months' time.

We have to start from where we are and the most direct way out of our mess is just to get a 'Norway deal' with all it's short-comings then we can start to re-build our country.

But that option is not available at the moment. It will not be available until article 50 is triggered and even when article 50 is triggered, we cannot be certain we will get a deal as good as the Norway one.

[L.A.]

We don't know the political landscape in three months' time.

But that option is not available at the moment. It will not be available until article 50 is triggered and even when article 50 is triggered, we cannot be certain we will get a deal as good as the Norway one.

I can't disagree with any of that, but I think we should be very wary of starting a process that is likely to drag on for a long time.

[jeremyp]

I can't disagree with any of that, but I think we should be very wary of starting a process that is likely to drag on for a long time.

I agree. The next PM should do one of two things:

1. invoke article 50

2. announce that they will never invoke article 50.

Option 2 should be followed immediately by a general election.

[Bubbles]

I have talked to people who voted for Leave and they now admit that they had no idea what they were voting for. If they had a second vote I think there is no doubt the way it would go - but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any mechanism to do that.

If there isn't a mechanism to do that, then you need to create your own.

What about giving him ( James Hunt)  a call, starting a petition of your own and advertising it via Facebook and Twitter.

Dropping an email to Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP, see if you can get them to add Scotland voters to your petition.

Get as many leave voters together ( create a web page) who now regret it, to put their stories together and publicise it through the media.

Get together have a group on Facebook, have a protest march to number 10.

Make a noise, be heard.

Find out how much support you would get.

Ok you might not succeed, and some of us won't agree in principal with overturning a democratic vote, but again it depends how it is presented and what proportion of leave voters regret it.

No point in getting angry on here.

Once they evoke article 50 it will be to late, because it's not reversible and we would have to reapply with fresh terms.

Which you just know are likely to be crappy to what we have now.

[floo]

I have talked to people who voted for Leave and they now admit that they had no idea what they were voting for. If they had a second vote I think there is no doubt the way it would go - but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any mechanism to do that.

Same here. I have spoken to several people who said they didn't really understand what it was all about, but voted to leave because other people they knew were doing so! They also said if they had realised all the trouble it would cause, they would have voted to remain. YE GODS!

[Bubbles]

The problem is it all takes a lot of time and effort and you have to be prepared to stick your head above the parapet and be counted.

Moaning on a message board is one thing, getting up and organising is another.

Ok you' re angry, I get it, but can YOU be bothered to put yourself out to do something about it?

Or is moaning and being angry all you have?

You all accuse me of having rose tinted glasses and not seeing the reality, but what about all of you?

Posting on this messageboard isn't reality.

Reality is what you do in real life, who knows what you can achieve if you try.

Reality isn't moaning about what is happening or might happen on here, either.

In a way we are all avoiding reality by moaning on here, instead of getting out there in the real world seeing what we can do.

[floo]

The problem is it all takes a lot of time and effort and you have to be prepared to stick your head above the parapet and be counted.

Moaning on a message board is one thing, getting up and organising is another.

Ok you' re angry, I get it, but can YOU be bothered to put yourself out to do something about it?

Or is moaning and being angry all you have?

What are you on about?

[jeremyp]

What are you on about?

She wants us all to be lovey dovey and buckle under.

[Brownie]

No she doesn't for goodness sake, not at all.  Rose's posts haven't been read properly, no attempt at all to try and understand what she is saying and it isn't difficult.

[Bubbles]

She wants us all to be lovey dovey and buckle under.

No

I'm saying if you are that unhappy about it, do something in RL about it.

You moaning and groaning on here is no more reality, than me posting on here.

It's easier to post something, than try and sort it out in RL.

You feel strongly.......... Do something about it.

Posting on a message board is a bit like lots of  Alf Garnett's dictating from an armchair. ( I include myself in this)

It means nothing.

If you're not prepared to get together with others who feel the same way,  to try and bring about real change, your reality is no more real or valid than mine.



Message boards are just a way of escaping reality, you don't have to do anything.

[Bubbles]

No she doesn't for goodness sake, not at all.  Rose's posts haven't been read properly, no attempt at all to try and understand what she is saying and it isn't difficult.

Thanks Brownie 😉

I think people are " scared" to see it.

The prospect scares me too.

It takes a lot of guts to get up and make a change in the real world.

They probably don't want to see I am challenging them 

No change is.

IMPOSSIBLE

[floo]

Rose, your posts aren't always easy to understand or particularly logical, imo

[Bubbles]

Amazing!

Talk about cognitive dissonance!

[Brownie]

Rose, your posts aren't always easy to understand or particularly logical, imo

Nonsense, they are extremely clear.  If they were not clear I wouldn't be able to understand them without analysing every phrase and sentence.  You don't read people's posts properly floo, you ignore them or scan them and are never unbiased.  I'm not 'having a go' at you, just stating facts.

[floo]

Rose and Brownie the dream team!