The Economy is in for a rough ride

[BashfulAnthony]

Theresa May was a Remainer and yet here she is leading a country into what she thinks is a worse future than staying in the EU.

That doesn't strike me as an example of integrity.

Anybody who knows politics  -  not you, then  -  knows that Theresa May was a very luke-warm Remainer.  Since she has become PM she is obliged to carry out the will of the majority with regard to the Referendum, and regardless of her personal inclination.   What else could she do?  She's not one of these idiots who pathetically call for a second Referendum.

[jeremyp]

Anybody who knows politics  -  not you, then  -  knows that Theresa May was a very luke-warm Remainer.

But she was a Remainer.

Since she has become PM she is obliged to carry out the will of the majority with regard to the Referendum

So she has no integrity. She should either not have stood or she should stick by her principles.

What else could she do?  She's not one of these idiots who pathetically call for a second Referendum.

I would have called a general election and stated in the manifesto that we would either not leave or go for the Norway option.

[BashfulAnthony]

But she was a Remainer.

So she has no integrity. She should either not have stood or she should stick by her principles.
I would have called a general election and stated in the manifesto that we would either not leave or go for the Norway option.

Unrealistic nonsense.  Why should she call an election?  The Referendum is over: Brexit is fact, an incontrovertible fact.  And why, on this planet, should she go for the Norway option?  Yes, she was a Remainer, but as anyone who knows anything about politics (again, not you, then!), a very reluctant one.  Had she decided to call an election she would have swept the floor with the divided and inept Labour Part,  thus strengtheing her position hugely.  Good job she didn't, for you, eh?

[BashfulAnthony]

But she was a Remainer.

So she has no integrity. She should either not have stood or she should stick by her principles.
I would have called a general election and stated in the manifesto that we would either not leave or go for the Norway option.

She was a Remainer;  but as anyone with political insight knows (again, not you, then), a reluctant one.  She is now Prime Minister and it is her duty to carry out the will of the people expressed in the Referendum.  And why on earth she should call an election is beyond me. And what nonsense are you talking about the Norway option?  She will create our own deal, one that suits us. The decision is made and there is no need to cloud the issue.  Had she decided to, by the way, she would have swept the floor with the sad Labour Party, and thus made her position massively secure.

[Aruntraveller]

She is now Prime Minister and it is her duty to carry out the will of the people expressed in the Referendum.

And yet again dodging the central point which is rather like Christianity there are nearly as many versions of Brexit as there are people who voted for it.

Is it to stop free movement ? Is it to take back sovereignty? Is it to get free trade; free trade incidentally which is going to be a damn sight more expensive certainly in the short term; and from which many of our industries will struggle to recover from, if ever. Was it to give the ruling classes a black eye - which certainly seems to be the case for a considerable number of voters?

If so it is a classic case of cutting your nose off to spite your face.

So we all know Anthony that Brexit means Brexit. So yet again what does Brexit mean?

And until we know the answer to that how on Earth can we be expected to either accept it or reject it. Democratically I would say another referendum is an essential based on what is the outcome of talks. Of course we can't have talks with the EU until Article 50 is triggered so from that POV it is a Catch22 situation.

But I really do not see why I, or anyone else should accept a situation where we leave when we do not even know what is going to happen. Look here is a door - on the other side is the promised land or it could be a drop of 1,000 miles into the pit. So are you going to open the door? Nope I would like to go back to the office and do some more research into what is behind that door, thank you.

[L.A.]

And yet again dodging the central point which is rather like Christianity there are nearly as many versions of Brexit as there are people who voted for it.

Is it to stop free movement ? Is it to take back sovereignty? Is it to get free trade; free trade incidentally which is going to be a damn sight more expensive certainly in the short term; and from which many of our industries will struggle to recover from, if ever. Was it to give the ruling classes a black eye - which certainly seems to be the case for a considerable number of voters?

If so it is a classic case of cutting your nose off to spite your face.

So we all know Anthony that Brexit means Brexit. So yet again what does Brexit mean?

And until we know the answer to that how on Earth can we be expected to either accept it or reject it. Democratically I would say another referendum is an essential based on what is the outcome of talks. Of course we can't have talks with the EU until Article 50 is triggered so from that POV it is a Catch22 situation.

. . .

That really is the central problem. In his infinite wisdom Cameron allowed the electorate to vote on remaining in the EU without specifying an alternative - so all options are up for grabs.

May I think is a pragmatist, so we can only hope that she manages the damage limitation as well as possible.

[Nearly Sane]

That really is the central problem. In his infinite wisdom Cameron allowed the electorate to vote on remaining in the EU without specifying an alternative - so all options are up for grabs.

May I think is a pragmatist, so we can only hope that she manages the damage limitation as well as possible.

but with a cabinet of zealots

[BashfulAnthony]

And yet again dodging the central point which is rather like Christianity there are nearly as many versions of Brexit as there are people who voted for it.

Is it to stop free movement ? Is it to take back sovereignty? Is it to get free trade; free trade incidentally which is going to be a damn sight more expensive certainly in the short term; and from which many of our industries will struggle to recover from, if ever. Was it to give the ruling classes a black eye - which certainly seems to be the case for a considerable number of voters?

If so it is a classic case of cutting your nose off to spite your face.

So we all know Anthony that Brexit means Brexit. So yet again what does Brexit mean?

And until we know the answer to that how on Earth can we be expected to either accept it or reject it. Democratically I would say another referendum is an essential based on what is the outcome of talks. Of course we can't have talks with the EU until Article 50 is triggered so from that POV it is a Catch22 situation.

But I really do not see why I, or anyone else should accept a situation where we leave when we do not even know what is going to happen. Look here is a door - on the other side is the promised land or it could be a drop of 1,000 miles into the pit. So are you going to open the door? Nope I would like to go back to the office and do some more research into what is behind that door, thank you.

We don't know what Brexit means in detail because the new, relevant, Department is now working on it.  What we do know is that we are out of the EU, with its constrictions on our sovereignty and control of so much of our lives. That is what was voted for, and that is the end of it.  This stupid talk of another election is the squealing of bad losers, and more to the point, is undemocratic:  full stop.  Are you people going to ask for a re-run of a General Election if the result doesn't suit you?  Where does it end?  We had a Referendum vote, and before-hand there was no talk of another election to ratify the consequences.  It's rubbish, and dangerous rubbish if it was allowed to happen and set a precedent. 

[Aruntraveller]

It's rubbish, and dangerous rubbish

No you are talking dangerous rubbish. If it becomes clear that leaving so adversely affects our economy that it endangers ordinary people's standard of living it would be dangerous, irresponsible and stupid not to look at rethinking the situation.

So tell me Anthony Brexit means Brexit - but what does Brexit mean?

[floo]

If Brexit means Britain has to stand alone we will all be the losers. Apparently if we faced a military threat we haven't the resources to defend ourselves without the help of others. As I have said before Britain needs it European neighbours more than they probably need the us.

[BashfulAnthony]

No you are talking dangerous rubbish. If it becomes clear that leaving so adversely affects our economy that it endangers ordinary people's standard of living it would be dangerous, irresponsible and stupid not to look at rethinking the situation.

So tell me Anthony Brexit means Brexit - but what does Brexit mean?

Evert time we have a General Election we take the risk of electing to power a Party that will do "the dirty" on us.  Just ask those who have had their disability allowances cut; ask those who suffered from the so-called bedroom tax; all of us who have suffered from the Tory austerity cuts.  So because we didn't expect all this, does that mean we should have an immediate election to gauge opinion?  That's not how democracy works, and you don't seem to appreciate that at all.

Again:  Brexit means leaving the EU, and working out our own destiny:  why can't you people understand that simple fact?  I'll tell you :  because you lost, and you are looking for any lame excuse to try and bring about the reversal of a democratic vote.  Sounds to me as though your thinking belongs in some third world joke State. 

[Aruntraveller]

Evert time we have a General Election we take the risk of electing to power a Party that will do "the dirty" on us.  Just ask those who have had their disability allowances cut; ask those who suffered from the so-called bedroom tax; all of us who have suffered from the Tory austerity cuts.  So because we didn't expect all this, does that mean we should have an immediate election to gauge opinion?  That's not how democracy works, and you don't seem to appreciate that at all.

Again:  Brexit means leaving the EU, and working out our own destiny:  why can't you people understand that simple fact?  I'll tell you :  because you lost, and you are looking for any lame excuse to try and bring about the reversal of a democratic vote.  Sounds to me as though your thinking belongs in some third world joke State.

Anthony I am trying to remain civil I would appreciate it if you remained civil also.

The issue is that you do not seem to realize that the short term bounce in our economy is because the ｣ has devalued making it cheaper to sell our goods abroad. In a year or less that will look very different when the higher prices we have to pay for imported goods feed through into the economy. And as to everything not being as bad as predicted that is because we are still in the phase of the Phoney war - remember we haven't left the EU yet. Tarrifs have not changed, trading remains the same.
What happens when we do exit in 2 years time and we have no trade agreements in place? You might not like the truth but the vote has put us in a very precarious position economically. Now if you think it is a price worth paying for getting back our 'sovereignty' (although as far as I can see we gave that up to the multinational years ago') or for restricting free movement then have the guts to say I want people to be poorer to achieve these aims.

[BashfulAnthony]

Anthony I am trying to remain civil I would appreciate it if you remained civil also.

The issue is that you do not seem to realize that the short term bounce in our economy is because the ｣ has devalued making it cheaper to sell our goods abroad. In a year or less that will look very different when the higher prices we have to pay for imported goods feed through into the economy. And as to everything not being as bad as predicted that is because we are still in the phase of the Phoney war - remember we haven't left the EU yet. Tarrifs have not changed, trading remains the same.
What happens when we do exit in 2 years time and we have no trade agreements in place? You might not like the truth but the vote has put us in a very precarious position economically. Now if you think it is a price worth paying for getting back our 'sovereignty' (although as far as I can see we gave that up to the multinational years ago') or for restricting free movement then have the guts to say I want people to be poorer to achieve these aims.

Unemployment is down; consumer spending is up, the ｣ is stable, no investors or big organisations have left the UK, construction is on the up, inflation is stable.   So where do you get the precarious scenario from?  Talking about what might happen in two years is pointless.  It is entirely possible that in two years we will be as well, or better, placed than now. Talk your country down as much as you will, but I am not in that camp.  It's about time you, and those like you, turned their attention to positives, and looked to work the situation to our benefit, instead of this interminable whingeing of the loser. 


I am not intending to be uncivil, but merely expressing my exasperation at your apparent failure to recognise reality and understand how our democracy works.

[Aruntraveller]

Talking about what might happen in two years is pointless.  It is entirely possible that in two years we will be as well, or better, placed than now..

Oh so we don't go in for long term planning any more. A great strategy that has proved to be for the UK in the past. 

It is entirely possible that in the next 2 years Teresa May will redistribute the wealth of the country more equally. Entirely possible but wholly unlikely. Stop kidding yourself.

Well if you are feeling exasperation you know exactly how I feel. I do not see how if you look at the options you can think that we are in any way (except for keeping Johnny Foreigner out) going to be better off. trade deals take a notoriously long time to complete and World trade tariffs are going to knacker us. This is not scare mongering it is simple maths.

[BashfulAnthony]

Oh so we don't go in for long term planning any more. A great strategy that has proved to be for the UK in the past. 

It is entirely possible that in the next 2 years Teresa May will redistribute the wealth of the country more equally. Entirely possible but wholly unlikely. Stop kidding yourself.

I understand that the Brexit plan being worked on now will incorporate plans for our future.  Do give the Government some credit for foresight.

As to Theresa May:  it's once again pointless to make judgements after two months or so;  and equally pointless to try and predict what may (no pun intended!) be achieved in the future.  I certainly am not kidding myself, nor am I living in the "what if" world you inhabit.

[Aruntraveller]

I understand that the Brexit plan being worked on now will incorporate plans for our future.  Do give the Government some credit for foresight.

As to Theresa May:  it's once again pointless to make judgements after two months or so;  and equally pointless to try and predict what may (no pun intended!) be achieved in the future.  I certainly am not kidding myself, nor am I living in the "what if" world you inhabit.

It is not a 'what if' world. We have very few trade negotiators, most of those we did have are working (irony of irony) for the EU and won't be coming back. Trade deals take what 5,6,7 years to conclude on an individual basis - how are we going ot do this with a very small team?

Even if it is less in years it still does not solve the central problem of our trade relationship with the EU. And contrary to what others like to think - this is trade we very much need and rely on. So agan Brexit means Brexit - but what does it mean?

According to you the government has foresight. HELLO - have you nor been paying attention. Clearly there is no foresight otherwise we would not be where we are now. And given a lot of the faces around the cabinet table were there before the referendum I can only conclude that you are very much whistling in the dark.

[L.A.]

Evert time we have a General Election we take the risk of electing to power a Party that will do "the dirty" on us.  Just ask those who have had their disability allowances cut; ask those who suffered from the so-called bedroom tax; all of us who have suffered from the Tory austerity cuts.  So because we didn't expect all this, does that mean we should have an immediate election to gauge opinion?  That's not how democracy works, and you don't seem to appreciate that at all.

Morning B.A.

That's the reason that we need a strong competent opposition party and we have regular elections.

Again:  Brexit means leaving the EU, and working out our own destiny:  why can't you people understand that simple fact?  I'll tell you :  because you lost, and you are looking for any lame excuse to try and bring about the reversal of a democratic vote.  Sounds to me as though your thinking belongs in some third world joke State.

There are many versions of Brexit.

For example, we heard a lot pre-referendum about how businessmen and entrepreneurs would use the new freedoms to generate wealth - but I have a feeling that what some of them have in mind is exporting British jobs to third-world countries. Certainly an effective way of generating wealth for themselves, but maybe not too good for the rest of us.

[floo]

It is not a 'what if' world. We have very few trade negotiators, most of those we did have are working (irony of irony) for the EU and won't be coming back. Trade deals take what 5,6,7 years to conclude on an individual basis - how are we going ot do this with a very small team?

Even if it is less in years it still does not solve the central problem of our trade relationship with the EU. And contrary to what others like to think - this is trade we very much need and rely on. So agan Brexit means Brexit - but what does it mean?

According to you the government has foresight. HELLO - have you nor been paying attention. Clearly there is no foresight otherwise we would not be where we are now. And given a lot of the faces around the cabinet table were there before the referendum I can only conclude that you are very much whistling in the dark.

I agree with your analysis.

[BashfulAnthony]

It is not a 'what if' world. We have very few trade negotiators, most of those we did have are working (irony of irony) for the EU and won't be coming back. Trade deals take what 5,6,7 years to conclude on an individual basis - how are we going ot do this with a very small team?

Even if it is less in years it still does not solve the central problem of our trade relationship with the EU. And contrary to what others like to think - this is trade we very much need and rely on. So agan Brexit means Brexit - but what does it mean?

According to you the government has foresight. HELLO - have you nor been paying attention. Clearly there is no foresight otherwise we would not be where we are now. And given a lot of the faces around the cabinet table were there before the referendum I can only conclude that you are very much whistling in the dark.

Your pessimistic and totally unfounded fears of some sort of melt-down to come, an apocalypse, are the sort of unverifiable scare-mongering tactics that cause lack of confidence in the markets and is nothing less than scurrilous.  Do you actually want this country to suffer some sort of economic set-back?  Why not try very hard to back your country and be positive for once?  The scare-mongering you deal in was exposed after both the Scottish Referendum, and then the EU Referendum.  Learn your lesson:  it doesn't work: it is counter -productive.

[JP]

I think it would be a good idea if some of the contributors to this discussion should be either (or both), advisors to the government or be part of the Brexit negotiating team as they seem to know exactly how this is going to go.

The government would do well to make use of the superb expert skills and remarkable foresight that are on offer.

[BashfulAnthony]

I agree with your analysis.

Have you got an analysis, Floo?  Or are you just agreeing with anybody who disagrees with me?  You are very mature!

[BashfulAnthony]

I think it would be a good idea if some of the contributors to this discussion should be either (or both), advisors to the government or be part of the Brexit negotiating team as they seem to know exactly how this is going to go.

The government would do well to make use of the superb expert skills and remarkable foresight that are on offer.

Well, that's very nice.  Thank you (if it includes me, that is.)  After all compliments are always welcome, whatever the source!

[BashfulAnthony]

Morning B.A.

That's the reason that we need a strong competent opposition party and we have regular elections.

There are many versions of Brexit.

For example, we heard a lot pre-referendum about how businessmen and entrepreneurs would use the new freedoms to generate wealth - but I have a feeling that what some of them have in mind is exporting British jobs to third-world countries. Certainly an effective way of generating wealth for themselves, but maybe not too good for the rest of us.

Good morning to you L.A.

Small businesses are the back-bone of our economy.  At present they are being stifled by EU red tape, being subject to the same restrictions as big business, which is so much better placed to cope.  Once free of the EU these small businesses will be free to expand, to all the world;  and yes it will benefit them, of course, but more to the point, it will benefit us all by strengthening the economy.  It is very simple economics.

[floo]

We are all citizens of the this world, which is ever decreasing in size due to modern technology. We need less of the 'my country right or wrong' view, but a global strategy which encompasses every nation to make things better for all.  OK I know that is going to be extremely hard to achieve, but the 'little englander', pull up the drawbridge approach in the UK, doesn't help matters, imo.

[BashfulAnthony]

We are all citizens of the this world, which is ever decreasing in size due to modern technology. We need less of the 'my country right or wrong' view, but a global strategy which encompasses every nation to make things better for all.  OK I know that is going to be extremely hard to achieve, but the 'little englander', pull up the drawbridge approach in the UK, doesn't help matters, imo.

Good grief!!  Leaving the EU does not make us "little Englanders."  It does precisely the opposite:  it enables us to become a global contributor, not bound by EU restrictions.