The Brexiters shit on the country again

[jeremyp]

In your dreams...

It's a matter of fact.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/jun/24/brexit-big-blow-to-uk-science-say-top-british-scientists

You mean they give us our own money back, how kind...NOT.

Actually, we get more than our "fair" share of science funding from the EU.

If we are not paying them 35 billion we can afford to give it to ourselves.

Where did you get that figure of 35 billion from?

Any program that makes the poor poorer and the oppresses them and the disabled is NOT going to succeed. Charity begins at home. If they could not take of our own service men putting them on the street or the poorer in our society then NO we should not be bailing out others or bringing immigrants here.
They reaped what they sowed.

I don't know why you think a poor Polish person is worth less than a poor Englishman, unless it is because you are racist.

Sore losers people like you thinking that they could treat the poorer in our societies like sh*t

Actually it's a case of wanting to help poor people in more than just England. The EU is about improving the lot of everybody in its member states.

Your lack of vision is utterly depressing.

This Country lost it's greatness when it prostituted us out to the EU and made it's people poorer to do so.

Now you are delusional. This country lost its greatness through having to prosecute two catastrophic and extremely costly (in many ways) wars with other countries in Europe. The EU helps to stop that from ever happening again.

You need to read your 20th century history.

If you don't like the Country then leave...

Don't think it hasn't crossed my mind. Right now it seems there are too many small minded xenophobic Little Englanders here for it to be a pleasant place to live.

No consequences we British are made of stern stuff, Hitler couldn't wear us down

He did wear us down. Do some research into the state of the country when the War finished. Google "Marshall plan" if you want to see how not worn down we were.

All the EU has done has ruined other countries and caused them to require bailing out. Britiain is British and we do not require the EU to survive. As an Island with the help of God we have done that pretty much always survived and we don't give in to bullies and idiots who when democracy has ruled become cry babies and stamp their feet.

You're an ignorant know nothing and you are beneath contempt. Is it cowardly to embrace our European neighbours and look to the future or to cower on our little island behind our fortified borders. You Leavers have ruined this country and I'm not going to stop saying it just because you find the truth unpalatable.

[Bubbles]

 


No one has ruined the country   

[jeremyp]

No one has ruined the country   

The Brexiters have.

[Bubbles]

The Brexiters have.

No they haven't

[Sassy]

Hitler would have worn us down if it wasn't for the most powerful country coming to our aid.

My Great Uncle Joe was a Desert Rat an ORIGINAL every time they conquered a place and move on leaving it in the hands of the Americans they had to turn back to retrieve it again as the that powerful country could not hold onto it.

The Americans did not come into the war to aid us, they came in because they came under attack in 1941 December 7th when the japs bombed Pearl Harbour.  Churchill had tried to convince Roosevelt to enter the war but they did not enter  WW2 till they themselves came under attack.


Men don't need other countries to win wars when God is on their side. Even Churchill realised that all he had learned made no sense till God brought him to lead this Country in War. Then he knew what everything he had learned was for.

You need the eyes of faith to understand Gods plans in the lives of others.

America soon entered the war when they realised no one is safe no matter  where they live when there is powers willing to attack in secret and underhandedly.

[jeremyp]

No they haven't

Open your eyes.

[jeremyp]

My Great Uncle Joe was a Desert Rat an ORIGINAL every time they conquered a place and move on leaving it in the hands of the Americans they had to turn back to retrieve it again as the that powerful country could not hold onto it.

That's utter nonsense. Read some history of the North Africa campaign.

The Americans did not come into the war to aid us, they came in because they came under attack in 1941 December 7th when the japs bombed Pearl Harbour.  Churchill had tried to convince Roosevelt to enter the war but they did not enter  WW2 till they themselves came under attack.

It doesn't matter why they came into the War. The fact is they did and we couldn't have won without them and it still left us hopelessly bankrupt and in need of US aide afterwards.

Men don't need other countries to win wars when God is on their side. Even Churchill realised that all he had learned made no sense till God brought him to lead this Country in War. Then he knew what everything he had learned was for.

What a load of tosh.

[Bubbles]

Open your eyes.

My eyes are open 

[Bubbles]

My Great Uncle Joe was a Desert Rat an ORIGINAL every time they conquered a place and move on leaving it in the hands of the Americans they had to turn back to retrieve it again as the that powerful country could not hold onto it.

The Americans did not come into the war to aid us, they came in because they came under attack in 1941 December 7th when the japs bombed Pearl Harbour.  Churchill had tried to convince Roosevelt to enter the war but they did not enter  WW2 till they themselves came under attack.


Men don't need other countries to win wars when God is on their side. Even Churchill realised that all he had learned made no sense till God brought him to lead this Country in War. Then he knew what everything he had learned was for.

You need the eyes of faith to understand Gods plans in the lives of others.

America soon entered the war when they realised no one is safe no matter  where they live when there is powers willing to attack in secret and underhandedly.

Sassy

But was it specifically the Christian God ?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11314580/Sir-Winston-Churchill-s-family-feared-he-might-convert-to-Islam.html

 

[jeremyp]

My eyes are open 

And you can't see the chaos going on?

Read this to give you some idea of the complexities of what must happen next

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/14/whats-the-best-brexit-theresa-may-could-get-for-britain

We are going to spend the next twenty years sorting this mess out. That's a lot of energy that could have been directed to positive outward looking forward thinking ideas. Instead we need to find ways of stopping other EU countries from pillaging us of our industry and services whilst also acquiescing to the demands of our own xenophobes.

[SusanDoris]

On the PM programme today there were scientists already noticing problems with funding.

[torridon]

from the NYT : England’s Last Gasp of Empire :

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/13/opinion/englands-last-gasp-of-empire.html

[SusanDoris]

Yes, a very interesting article.

[ProfessorDavey]

On the subject of Science, what do people here think of Justine Greening as Education Secretary - which appears to cover Science too.

No that's wrong - the universities and science minister's remit (Boris' brother) is split between two departments - the education part of his remit in the Department of Education (under Greening) but the research and science part is under Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy under Greg Clark.

[ProfessorDavey]

In your dreams... What sciences are they providing funding for that we don't already have funding for here?

Any science where the questions to be answered require teams of researchers that are defined by the quality of those people rather than where they live.

The UK science funding only funds scientists in UK institutions so you are very limited in the teams you can put together. EU funding has allowed teams of researchers to be put together that include the top talents from pretty well anywhere in Europe.

[ProfessorDavey]

According to him it is harder for scientists from outside the EU to come here because they can't get a visa.

He is, of course, correct that scientists from outside the EU need a visa, while those in the EU don't.

But Brexit won't stop those from outside the EU still requiring a visa, but may well require those from inside the EU to get one too.

[ProfessorDavey]

Not ALL scientists are negative, Susan.

http://scientistsforbritain.uk/wordpress/

You will always find some who disagree with any position even if they are a tiny, tiny minority. So you will find some scientists that deny climate change is occurring, but the vast, vast majority believe it is.

So on Brexit, well guess what I spend my life in the company of research scientists, based in the EU, other EU countries and across the world.

I cannot think of a single scientist I know who has expressed anything other than negative views on brexit and its effects on science. Sure many are putting on a brave face and hoping that the ultimate settlement will allow us to retain the ability to be funded throughout the EU schemes, but the scientific community is, without doubt, deeply concerned about the future of research funding for science in the UK, and in turn concerned about the standing of the UK amongst the scientific community, specifically because to do internationally leading scientific research you need funding, and in many cases lots of funding.

[ProfessorDavey]

According to him it is harder for scientists from outside the EU to come here because they can't get a visa.

http://scientistsforbritain.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Viscount_Ridley_Transcript.pdf

Some of his points are interesting.

Lots of non EU countries get funding anyway.

And why should his views be considered to be authoritative on the effects of brexit on scientific research.

You do understand that he isn't a research scientist, don't you.

[Brownie]

I thought he was a journalist who has published in the 'pop' science genre.  Of course he can make comments based on his observations as we all can but he is hardly an expert.

[ProfessorDavey]

I thought he was a journalist who has published in the 'pop' science genre.  Of course he can make comments based on his observations as we all can but he is hardly an expert.

Exactly right. He isn't a research scientist, so can't be considered to be an expert.

[Sassy]

That's utter nonsense. Read some history of the North Africa campaign.
It doesn't matter why they came into the War. The fact is they did and we couldn't have won without them and it still left us hopelessly bankrupt and in need of US aide afterwards.
What a load of tosh.

The truth is that my great uncle was an original Desert Rat.

The other fact is that the reason they came into the war did matter.

Though financially we were left in debt to the USA the truth does matter and it does not change anything I said.

In truth it is a fact that GOD used this country to bring the Jews back to Israel and to win the war against a tyrant. Without the faith element it still does not change the facts that what I said is true.

[jeremyp]

The truth is that my great uncle was an original Desert Rat.

So what?

The USA were not involved in the North Africa campaign until Operation Torch at the end of 1942 and it was all over by May 1943 largely because we had the help of the Americans.

Though financially we were left in debt to the USA the truth does matter and it does not change anything I said.

Britain was utterly exhausted at the end of the war.

In truth it is a fact that GOD used this country to bring the Jews back to Israel

Does he think that is actually going well? If it was God's idea to create the modern state of Israel, he needs to keep out of world politics.

and to win the war against a tyrant. Without the faith element it still does not change the facts that what I said is true.

The Second World War was one by human beings, attributing any part of it to God is degrading to all the people who sacrificed so much to the cause.

Furthermore, the outcome of the war was that the atheist Soviet Union gained control of a large part of Europe, is that what God wanted?

[jakswan]

British science is already suffering thanks to those twats.

This sort of drivel isn't going to change anyone's mind.

[Sassy]

This sort of drivel isn't going to change anyone's mind.

I agree...

[jeremyp]

This sort of drivel isn't going to change anyone's mind.

It's a fact. Try reading the news.