Nice Prayers

[Sassy]

That statement is GARBAGE, especially as the deeds attributed to god are so evil!

Lack of education and inability to understand justice, evil and good is your problem.

You see man did evil, man allowed evil and man practiced evil.
God punishing evil was just the same as us punishing evil. Only unlike our human judges he had no sin and was witness to all things knowing all the hearts of those who committed evil and able to see what would happen if he allowed those who committed those evil things to live.

God NEVER KILLED AN INNOCENT MAN. In the bible he had a covenant with the Israelites.
A covenant they agreed to. You have NO right and NO innocence to be able to judge God.
Because you are a sinner and the things you say against God are simply your lies based in your own evil and understanding which the latter you lack in greatly.

Imagine a truck coming at you. Because you walked out in front of it too busy to be bothered to look before you stepped out. You may blame the truck and driver but the truth won't change it is your own fault or stop the truck hitting you.
Unlike you God can see what happens yesterday, today and forever.

He knowingly made all decision in the best interest of the human race. But you can't see beyond your own space let alone give credence to truth.

[Sassy]

Not really correct.

Everything humans do, everything humans think, all our hopes and fears and tastes are all part of human nature,

No they are not... Because not all humans hope for the same things, fear the same things and like/dislike the same things...

the good the bad and the ugly are all in there. 

What is good, bad and ugly are all based in CHOICE.

To know ourselves, means acknowledging and trying to understand the full range of our capacities, from acts of unthinkable cruelty to the tenderest loving kindnesses.

Keep telling yourself that and then tell us why you don't kill people.

[Aruntraveller]

He knowingly made all decision in the best interest of the human race.

What like the decision to give us free will.

That's working out really well. 

And don't try and side step it by saying it is humans misusing free will - your God gave us free will - in the full and certain knowledge of what would happen. That is if you accept that your God is omniscient, whether that be inherent or total. If inherent, God could choose to know the result of giving us free will - if he chooses not to know, then he is ignoring the facts in plain sight that the human race misuses freewill far too often and to devastating murderous effect and not amending his behaviour accordingly. If God has total omniscience then he actively expects and in some sense planned the deaths, rapes, poverty to continue as per his plan.

Either way God sounds like a very slow learner with a heart of stone.

[Aruntraveller]

and like/dislike the same things...

I dislike olives - does that hold true for everyone in the world?

[Sassy]

What like the decision to give us free will.

That's working out really well. 

Of course it did... you get to make the choice of whether you live or die.

And don't try and side step it by saying it is humans misusing free will - your God gave us free will - in the full and certain knowledge of what would happen.

No he gave humans freewill to choose to know him and choose life or not know him and choose death.
The world is better off without people who murder and cause pain and grief.
That is the choices free will makes. Do good you live do evil you die. Not hard when you know right from wrong and so does everyone else. A choice of good and evil one Gods does not make you choose you do that yourself.

That is if you accept that your God is omniscient, whether that be inherent or total.

God knows everything so he knows what you will choose however he does not make that choice for you. So free will works really well and God remains all-knowing having written the book of life before the beginning of the world.

If inherent, God could choose to know the result of giving us free will - if he chooses not to know, then he is ignoring the facts in plain sight that the human race misuses freewill far too often and to devastating murderous effect and not amending his behaviour accordingly. If God has total omniscience then he actively expects and in some sense planned the deaths, rapes, poverty to continue as per his plan.

He did not choose the result he simply gave you the choice. Whom did Adam and Eve listen to? God or the devil. They followed their own hearts and wanted what they thought was best for themselves and not God. Christ warned man not fear those who kill the body.
But to fear God who has the power to cast both body and soul into hell.
Death and suffering is not the end for people here who love and choose God. Restoration and real eternal life without any memory of pain and suffering.

Either way God sounds like a very slow learner with a heart of stone.

Actually, it show that you are the slow learner and prefer to think as one with a heart of stone rather than someone who knows God and has a flesh heart which loves and cares about God and others.

[Sassy]

I dislike olives - does that hold true for everyone in the world?

Let's put the original context back:-

torridon
 

on Today at 08:58:18 AM
Not really correct.

Everything humans do, everything humans think, all our hopes and fears and tastes are all part of human nature,

No they are not... Because not all humans hope for the same things, fear the same things and like/dislike the same things...

I think you misread...

[Aruntraveller]

God knows everything so he knows what you will choose however he does not make that choice for you.

So (avoiding Godwin for the moment) he knows what a murderer will choose but he then chooses to do nothing about it. God has been behaving like this forever. Murderers, rapists, thieves, child abusers - 'he knows' (Your words) but he chooses to do nothing to stop it.

No - God is the slow learner. I know that if I had advance knowledge that a murder was going to be committed I would do my best to stop it.

Hey - I have better morals than God - who knew?!!

[Aruntraveller]

Let's put the original context back:-
No they are not... Because not all humans hope for the same things, fear the same things and like/dislike the same things...

I think you misread...

I did.

[jeremyp]

All that from the person who wrote:-
Truth is your words show you to be the pathetic one and the person who suggested terrorist are terrorist because they lack comfort, and healing.

Who knows why terrorists become terrorists. Your attempts to generalise are farcical.

This person, by all accounts was a deeply disturbed individual who suffered from depression. God could quite easily have intervened with a bit of healing (if he exists) and stopped the attack  whilst also helping this individual.

[quite]The victims in the 9/11 both adult and children did nothing for which the terrorist required comfort or healing. How low can you sink to attack a believer with such evil excuses to try and condone the terrorist and the attacks?
[/quote]
What has this got to do with 9/11? Why on Earth do you think I am condoning any of these attacks? I'm just pointing out the utterly miserable track record of your horrible god.

I can  think of nothing worse than being the author of your post which by all accounts tries to excuse evil in a pure form. There is no cause or justification for killing or harming innocent people. No excuse whatsoever.

Yes, so why does God let it happen? What's his excuse?

[jeremyp]

Of course it did... you get to make the choice of whether you live or die.

You got no choice if you happened to be standing in the path of that lorry in Nice. Murdering somebody else is the ultimate violation of free will but your God just lets it happen.

[torridon]

No they are not... Because not all humans hope for the same things, fear the same things and like/dislike the same things...

What is good, bad and ugly are all based in CHOICE.

Keep telling yourself that and then tell us why you don't kill people.

Well we are all unique, granted, we have diverse interests and inclinations, but saying that all aspects of our behaviours are part of human nature is not the same as saying we are all uniform, without individuality. Indeed, given that the human genome is extraordinarily homogenous for some reason, the diversity in expression is quite remarkable in humans. I think all our collective potentialities are what we could call human nature, as an umbrella term, and it recognises the fact that any one of us could have turned out quite differently even given the same personal genome, such is the moulding and fashioning effect of upbringing and life experiences.  If you had been born with my genes and had my life experiences you would be an atheist currently, like me.  If you had been born to a street vendor in Karachi you would be a muslim currently.  If you think we have choice in how we turn out, think again, the notion of choice is a mirage we indulge to flatter ourselves with.

[Sassy]

So (avoiding Godwin for the moment) he knows what a murderer will choose but he then chooses to do nothing about it. God has been behaving like this forever. Murderers, rapists, thieves, child abusers - 'he knows' (Your words) but he chooses to do nothing to stop it.

No! he has done something about it...

THOU SHALT NOT MURDER.

He has told you not to murder, same with stealing and with rape.
But they still do it.
The wages of sin is death.
But they still do it.

You want him to punish people now when we have laws which do it?

God has made known what you must not do. But man does it anyway,

Freewill in action but the payment of that sin is yet to be addressed.

No - God is the slow learner. I know that if I had advance knowledge that a murder was going to be committed I would do my best to stop it.

Hey - I have better morals than God - who knew?!!

Wrong!   basically you are trying to make excuses and blame someone else other than the person who does the wrong. God is not responsible for what you or anyone else chooses to do. He has told you NOT to do it. He has told you what is going to happen to those who have done these things.

You have no morals because you blame God and make excuses,.NO ONE IS TO BLAME BUT YOU IF YOU SIN AND THE SAME FOR EVERYONE. In capitals to serve as a warning.

So you see no excuses for you.

[Sassy]

I did.

Been good chatting with you Trent.

[floo]

No! he has done something about it...

THOU SHALT NOT MURDER.

He has told you not to murder, same with stealing and with rape.
But they still do it.
The wages of sin is death.
But they still do it.

You want him to punish people now when we have laws which do it?

God has made known what you must not do. But man does it anyway,

Freewill in action but the payment of that sin is yet to be addressed.
Wrong!   basically you are trying to make excuses and blame someone else other than the person who does the wrong. God is not responsible for what you or anyone else chooses to do. He has told you NOT to do it. He has told you what is going to happen to those who have done these things.

You have no morals because you blame God and make excuses,.NO ONE IS TO BLAME BUT YOU IF YOU SIN AND THE SAME FOR EVERYONE. In capitals to serve as a warning.

So you see no excuses for you.

God was a murderer, if he the flooded the whole planet.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sassy,

You have no morals because you blame God and make excuses,.NO ONE IS TO BLAME BUT YOU IF YOU SIN AND THE SAME FOR EVERYONE. In capitals to serve as a warning.

Just out of interest, what "sin" do you suppose babies who die of leukaemia have committed? Or for that matter the schoolchildren whose 'plane was flown into a mountain by its mentally ill co-pilot, or the villagers swept away by the Boxing Day tsunami, or.....etc?

Is your belief really that everyone who suffers, perhaps horribly, must have been a "sinner" in order for your God to stand by with his arms folded all the while?

Really?

[Sassy]

It is David Wilkerson just wondered how long you will go on not seeing what is in front of you.
All of you knew but none wanted to speak the truth.
When I first searched for MICHAEL Wilkerson then David came up.

It was left in but none of you admitted to the deliberate error because you would have had to admit that he really did prophecy somethings going back 20 years or more.

It shows how far each will allow something to go on because they know to reveal the truth makes them answerable to his preaching and prophecies.

WHY couldn't you admit to finding the real name when you first googled?

I found it when I first googled but so did you.  Yet none of us said anything did we>?

Bah!

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sassy,

It shows how far each will allow something to go on because they know to reveal the truth makes them answerable to his preaching and prophecies.

What "prophecy" do you think this person made that does not fail for the usual reasons of imprecision, inevitability, ignoring the failed predictions etc?

[Nearly Sane]

It is David Wilkerson just wondered how long you will go on not seeing what is in front of you.
All of you knew but none wanted to speak the truth.
When I first searched for MICHAEL Wilkerson then David came up.

It was left in but none of you admitted to the deliberate error because you would have had to admit that he really did prophecy somethings going back 20 years or more.

It shows how far each will allow something to go on because they know to reveal the truth makes them answerable to his preaching and prophecies.

WHY couldn't you admit to finding the real name when you first googled?

I found it when I first googled but so did you.  Yet none of us said anything did we>?

Bah!

(a) I think you have the wrong thread,

and (b) as per link to thread where you named a Michael Wilkinson, it was challenged - link below



http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=12368.msg628244#msg628244

[Brownie]

Sass, I was one of the people who googled Michael Wilkinson and eventually came up with David Wilkerson (who others had suggested as an alternative but no-one was quite sure it was the right person);  we found mention of his son but no supporting evidence of him being brought back from the dead, ie nothing from the hospital staff or anyone independent, even the boy's brother.    Several of us tried really hard, googling different things and nothing about that came up - plenty of other stuff did but not that.  So if you have a link, perhaps you would be so kind as to post it for us.  It would help.

However, as NS has pointed out above, your post (and mine) belong on the Brexit thread, not here, so if you move yours, I'll move mine or more likely delete it altogether cos it's been said before.  Thanks.

http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=12368.msg628244#msg628244

[Nearly Sane]

Sass, I was one of the people who googled Michael Wilkinson and eventually came up with David Wilkerson (who others had suggested as an alternative but no-one was quite sure it was the right person);  we found mention of his son but no supporting evidence of him being brought back from the dead, ie nothing from the hospital staff or anyone independent, even the boy's brother.    Several of us tried really hard, googling different things and nothing about that came up - plenty of other stuff did but not that.  So if you have a link, perhaps you would be so kind as to post it for us.  It would help.

However, as NS has pointed out above, your post (and mine) belong on the Brexit thread, not here, so if you move yours, I'll move mine or more likely delete it altogether cos it's been said before.  Thanks.

http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=12368.msg628244#msg628244

. And can I suggest here you, Brownie, are getting confused with Wommack and Wilkerson?

[Sebastian Toe]

. And can I suggest here you, Brownie, are getting confused with Wommack and Wilkerson?

Unless of course it was a 'deliberate error'?!

[Nearly Sane]

Unless of course it was a 'deliberate error'?!

"You lousy bums, you and your stinking language, you think I know fuck nothing, well let me tell you— I know FUCK ALL!"

[jeremyp]

No! he has done something about it...

THOU SHALT NOT MURDER.

He has told you not to murder, same with stealing and with rape.
But they still do it.
The wages of sin is death.
But they still do it.

And God would know that but he sits back and does nothing.

You want him to punish people now when we have laws which do it?

God has made known what you must not do. But man does it anyway,

Which tells you how useless it is to set rules and expect people you created to obey them.

Your god is useless. He is a complete fraud.

[Brownie]

. And can I suggest here you, Brownie, are getting confused with Wommack and Wilkerson?

You mean the one who plays Ronnie Mitchell in Eastenders?  Possibly.  She undoubtedly has relatives that she believes to be dead.

[Nearly Sane]

You mean the one who plays Ronnie Mitchell in Eastenders?  Possibly.  She undoubtedly has relatives that she believes to be dead.

certified or registered dead?