Author Topic: Define God and Faith... (Read 7342 times)

Sassy · « **on:** July 21, 2016, 12:24:16 PM »

Some of the posts make me wonder how people really define God and Faith.
Why some posters appear to have not even the basic knowledge of how faith works and how and whom God is in the present tense and nature of things in the lives of believers.

It would be interesting to see the different views and discuss the way we all see these things:-

ekim · « **Reply #1 on:** July 21, 2016, 04:41:45 PM »

'God' is that which is invoked and 'faith' is persistence in a belief.

Sassy · « **Reply #2 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:10:44 AM »

Quote from: ekim on July 21, 2016, 04:41:45 PM

'God' is that which is invoked and 'faith' is persistence in a belief.

How was God invoked/ What is there to persist about in faith?

Sassy · « **Reply #3 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:13:05 AM »

Quote from: BeRational on July 21, 2016, 11:48:29 PM

Faith is the excuse people use when believing something for which there is insufficient evidence.

If you have evidence for something then faith is not required

By faith we please God it is through Christ and the Spirit we know God.
Faith expects that which God promises.

The only way to know God is to show faith as Abraham. He believed what God told him and he was seen as righteous.

Berational, was that your take on these things or your view of Christians?

ekim · « **Reply #4 on:** July 22, 2016, 09:44:05 AM »

Quote from: Sassy on July 22, 2016, 01:10:44 AM

How was God invoked/ What is there to persist about in faith?

Depending upon the 'God quality' which the individual seeks to invoke methods might include propitiation ceremonies, confession and atonement for sins, sacrifice, prayer, meditation. I suggested that 'faith' is the persistence with a belief e.g. beliefs are tested by events which can cause some to lose faith. Some project faith testing and tempting events on to a Satan figure and feel they have to 'fight the good fight'.

Nearly Sane · « **Reply #5 on:** July 22, 2016, 12:52:34 PM »

Moderator

Note a number of posts have been removed as inappropriate to the Faith Sharing Area. As a reminder to members, please be careful to check on which board a topic appears.

Sassy · « **Reply #6 on:** July 23, 2016, 02:25:25 PM »

Quote from: ekim on July 22, 2016, 09:44:05 AM

Depending upon the 'God quality' which the individual seeks to invoke methods might include propitiation ceremonies, confession and atonement for sins, sacrifice, prayer, meditation. I suggested that 'faith' is the persistence with a belief e.g. beliefs are tested by events which can cause some to lose faith. Some project faith testing and tempting events on to a Satan figure and feel they have to 'fight the good fight'.

God quality?

God is Holy there is no quality just truth.

ekim · « **Reply #7 on:** July 23, 2016, 04:02:03 PM »

Quote from: Sassy on July 23, 2016, 02:25:25 PM

God quality?

God is Holy there is no quality just truth.

What does 'Holy' mean? Isn't it a quality and isn't it a quality which some people aspire to? What is 'truth'? Isn't it a quality which some people seek? Some say God is Love and they seek to invoke and express that quality of love. When Jesus was on the cross, it was alleged that he called out to 'El'. As far as I recall 'El' meant power i.e. 'My power, my power why have you forsaken me'. Power is another divine quality which some aspire to. There are many other qualities projected on to a divinity which followers seek to invoke into their lives or the lives of others like life, mercy, health, peace, wisdom.

jeremyp · « **Reply #8 on:** July 23, 2016, 04:21:17 PM »

Quote from: Sassy on July 23, 2016, 02:25:25 PM

God is Holy

That statement is completely devoid of meaning. Look up what "holy" means.

Hope · « **Reply #9 on:** July 23, 2016, 05:56:41 PM »

BR defined faith as

Quote

... the excuse people use when believing something for which there is insufficient evidence.

I would like to suggest that this is a seriously flawed understanding of 'faith'. Before my father died in 1982, I had faith in his decision-making abilities and his approach to life because I had seen both in action and bearing fruit. I would use the same criteria for faith in anyone else, including a deity. Oddly enough, from a purely scientific way of thinking, there was probably limited evidence to support the faith I had in my father, but experience provided the evidence I needed.

Quote

If you have evidence for something then faith is not required

One needs faith, even when 'evidence' exists; in fact, even when 'evidence' exists, one has to have experience and understanding to validate that evidence.

Hope · « **Reply #10 on:** July 23, 2016, 06:02:57 PM »

Quote from: jeremyp on July 23, 2016, 04:21:17 PM

That statement is completely devoid of meaning. Look up what "holy" means.

The Hebrew/biblical word that is translated 'Holy' in English is qodesh which means 'apartness, sacredness, separateness, set-apartness'; so Sassy's comment makes more sense than most utterances on this board. It certainly makes more sense than your response.

Étienne d'Angleterre · « **Reply #11 on:** July 23, 2016, 07:03:24 PM »

Quote from: Hope on July 23, 2016, 05:56:41 PM

BR defined faith as I would like to suggest that this is a seriously flawed understanding of 'faith'. Before my father died in 1982, I had faith in his decision-making abilities and his approach to life because I had seen both in action and bearing fruit. I would use the same criteria for faith in anyone else, including a deity. Oddly enough, from a purely scientific way of thinking, there was probably limited evidence to support the faith I had in my father, but experience provided the evidence I needed.

Just noticed this if the FSB so I will remove that comment.

ekim · « **Reply #12 on:** July 24, 2016, 10:27:14 AM »

Quote from: Hope on July 23, 2016, 06:02:57 PM

The Hebrew/biblical word that is translated 'Holy' in English is qodesh which means 'apartness, sacredness, separateness, set-apartness'; so Sassy's comment makes more sense than most utterances on this board. It certainly makes more sense than your response.

... except that she was implying that 'holy' is not a quality. The same word is used in the Bible in association with Holy Land, Holy Sabbath, Holy water, Holy man, Holy angels. I seem to remember that it is used to translate the Greek word 'Hagios' in the New Testament and that hagios also implies purity, another quality which some hope to aspire to.

Sassy · « **Reply #13 on:** July 24, 2016, 01:34:00 PM »

Quote from: ekim on July 23, 2016, 04:02:03 PM

What does 'Holy' mean? Isn't it a quality and isn't it a quality which some people aspire to?
Not a quality because God is Holy. He did not become Holy he has always been Holy.
God would be the definition of Holy had the dicitionary been working from the basis that God sets the pattern and definition for Holy.

People cannot aspire to be Holy it is a fact that people become the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus and therefore a holy people set aside for God whose sin is forgiven.

Anything set aside for God can be given the name Holy. Anything from God as Christ clearly was Luke 1:35 King James Version (KJV)

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

So God is Holy and that which comes from him or belongs to him becomes Holy.
Quote

What is 'truth'? Isn't it a quality which some people seek? Some say God is Love and they seek to invoke and express that quality of love. When Jesus was on the cross, it was alleged that he called out to 'El'. As far as I recall 'El' meant power i.e. 'My power, my power why have you forsaken me'. Power is another divine quality which some aspire to. There are many other qualities projected on to a divinity which followers seek to invoke into their lives or the lives of others like life, mercy, health, peace, wisdom.

Appears made up? DO you not know ELI is no EL...

Eli Eli Lama Sabachthani

Truth is God..

Sassy · « **Reply #14 on:** July 24, 2016, 01:34:35 PM »

Quote from: jeremyp on July 23, 2016, 04:21:17 PM

That statement is completely devoid of meaning. Look up what "holy" means.

Look up where the word HOLY came from.

Brownie · « **Reply #15 on:** July 24, 2016, 01:39:36 PM »

Origin of word: HOLY

Old English hālig, of Germanic origin; related to Dutch and German heilig, also to whole.

ekim · « **Reply #16 on:** July 24, 2016, 03:37:20 PM »

Quote from: Sassy on July 24, 2016, 01:34:00 PM

Appears made up? DO you not know ELI is no EL...

Eli Eli Lama Sabachthani

Truth is God..

I think you will find that 'El' was the noun and the suffix 'i' indicated the possessive pronoun 'my'. 'El' emphasises power and might and was in widespread use in the middle east to represent 'God' The same expression 'Eli Eli Lama Sabachthani ' you will see in the Hebrew version of Psalm 22:1. In Mark 15:34 it seems that the Aramaic version 'Eloi, Eloi' was used and translated into Greek as 'o theos mou' .... the God of me.

Sassy · « **Reply #17 on:** July 24, 2016, 09:54:14 PM »

Quote from: ekim on July 24, 2016, 03:37:20 PM

I think you will find that 'El' was the noun and the suffix 'i' indicated the possessive pronoun 'my'. 'El' emphasises power and might and was in widespread use in the middle east to represent 'God' The same expression 'Eli Eli Lama Sabachthani ' you will see in the Hebrew version of Psalm 22:1. In Mark 15:34 it seems that the Aramaic version 'Eloi, Eloi' was used and translated into Greek as 'o theos mou' .... the God of me.

You were the one using EL and the fact is the NT is ELI as I pointed out.
It makes not difference to the fact you used the wrong one.

Sassy · « **Reply #18 on:** July 24, 2016, 10:55:45 PM »

Hebrew definition of word meaning Holy.

◄ 6918. qadosh ►
Strong's Concordance
qadosh: sacred, holy
Original Word: קָדוֹשׁ
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: qadosh
Phonetic Spelling: (kaw-doshe')
Short Definition: holy
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from the same as qodesh
Definition
sacred, holy
NASB Translation
consecrated (1), Holy (

, holy (50), Holy One (44), holy one (3), holy ones (6), one is holy (1), saints (2).

Holman Bible Dictionary

Holy

Concordance
Nave Topical Bible
Holy Spirit
Holy Place
Holy Day
Scofield Reference Index
Holy
Holy Spirit
Thompson Chain Reference
Holy
Holy Spirit
Holy Spirit, 6S, 7S, and 8's O

http://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hbd/view.cgi?n=2819. 1991.

ekim · « **Reply #19 on:** July 25, 2016, 07:40:55 AM »

Quote from: Sassy on July 24, 2016, 09:54:14 PM

You were the one using EL and the fact is the NT is ELI as I pointed out.
It makes not difference to the fact you used the wrong one.

No, I was explaining the difference between 'El' and 'Eli'. Incidentally, cutting and pasting sections from a concordance doesn't lend itself to "It would be interesting to see the different views and discuss the way we all see these things" in your opening post. If it is your view that 'qadosh' means sacred, holy then all you have to do is explain what the words 'sacred' and 'holy' mean to you and how you define 'God' and 'faith'.

Sassy · « **Reply #20 on:** July 26, 2016, 11:38:37 PM »

Quote from: ekim on July 25, 2016, 07:40:55 AM

No, I was explaining the difference between 'El' and 'Eli'. Incidentally, cutting and pasting sections from a concordance doesn't lend itself to "It would be interesting to see the different views and discuss the way we all see these things" in your opening post. If it is your view that 'qadosh' means sacred, holy then all you have to do is explain what the words 'sacred' and 'holy' mean to you and how you define 'God' and 'faith'.

Don't you feel that a little insincere?

How can I see HOLY as anything but applying to God?

It is self explanatory... It is if you know it applies only to God and the things of God.

trippymonkey · « **Reply #21 on:** July 27, 2016, 07:11:07 AM »

Are WE things of God?

ekim · « **Reply #22 on:** July 27, 2016, 08:55:28 AM »

Quote from: Sassy on July 26, 2016, 11:38:37 PM

1... Don't you feel that a little insincere?

2...How can I see HOLY as anything but applying to God?

3... It is self explanatory... It is if you know it applies only to God and the things of God.

1... No, why should I?

2... Only you can answer that question, but in doing so, if you want to share it with others, then it would be helpful if you defined what you mean by 'holy' and 'God'.

3... If it is self explanatory then there doesn't seem much point in your opening post i.e. "It would be interesting to see the different views and discuss the way we all see these things" .

Sassy · « **Reply #23 on:** July 30, 2016, 02:24:27 AM »

Quote from: ekim on July 27, 2016, 08:55:28 AM

1... No, why should I?

2... Only you can answer that question, but in doing so, if you want to share it with others, then it would be helpful if you defined what you mean by 'holy' and 'God'.

3... If it is self explanatory then there doesn't seem much point in your opening post i.e. "It would be interesting to see the different views and discuss the way we all see these things" .

I already know my God and faith and you were still insincere and deliberately ignoring the definition of the Hebrew belief of what Holy is.

You failed to observe the obvious and are deliberate in trying to cover it.
Not sincere and totally unacceptable when replying to myself.

ekim · « **Reply #24 on:** July 30, 2016, 09:26:23 AM »

Quote from: Sassy on July 30, 2016, 02:24:27 AM

I already know my God and faith and you were still insincere and deliberately ignoring the definition of the Hebrew belief of what Holy is.

You failed to observe the obvious and are deliberate in trying to cover it.
Not sincere and totally unacceptable when replying to myself.

This reply is a classic example of why some discussion sites degenerate and fail. Each of those sentences are about me, or your opinion of me, which is not what the topic is about. The topic is this: "Define God and Faith... It would be interesting to see the different views and discuss the way we all see these things." If you already know your God and faith then it should be easy for you to define 'God', 'faith' 'Holy' and 'sacred' and continue the discussion. If, on the other hand, you are only interested in an ego trip or contest then you are not really 'interested in the different views' of others, and the discussion might just as well be terminated.

News:

Author Topic: Define God and Faith... (Read 7342 times)