Breast feeding, an exhibitionists' charter?

[Udayana]

hmm.. tbh, I can't see that it would work well for breast feeding - or swimming for that matter.

I think I need to go and have a lie down now...

[Harrowby Hall]

It would be quite easy to breastfeed whilst wearing this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3701565/Would-wear-beach-String-bondage-style-bikini-barely-covers-intimate-areas-latest-summer-sweeping-Japan.html

Hope no-one is offended, by the Mail I mean, not the article.
I have to say the outfit looks quite uncomfortable and the model very young,

Thank god for topless beaches.

[Udayana]

Thank god for topless beaches.

Quite. One brexit was more than enough!

[Brownie]

hmm.. tbh, I can't see that it would work well for breast feeding - or swimming for that matter.

I think I need to go and have a lie down now...

 

It would be easy to lift up the top so the milk bottles pop out in readiness Udayana.  I would worry they might pop out whilst doing the breast stroke though.

[Bubbles]

Whilst necessary, it isn't pretty, like men's dangly bits for that matter, far better covered up, imo.

But it's cultural Floo.

Women who dress in a Burka just see women as having more " private" bits.

Alternatively some African countries think nothing of women having their boobs on display 24/7 it's normal dress, and not private.


Imo subconsciously people (in the west) often don't like seeing a woman breast feed in public because it serves as a reminder of our animal roots.
(Deep down I think even non religious people can display that attitude, because  it's learnt)

So some people feel squeamish about facing up to their roots and feel they shouldn't be offended, by having to face it in public.

IMO There isn't much more natural and beautiful, than breast feeding a baby.

It causes some people offence on a subconcious level because they are forced to see something they think of as an animal thing and that, that's where we originate.

Therefore, it can be seen as offensive. Even with Athiests who believe we evolved because it's a learnt attitude.

 Our society / culture teaches us we shouldn't do (and it's not acceptable to do anything in public) something that is relating to our animal nature, which is likely to remind people they are descended from animals.

Example : , have sex, breast feed babies, give birth, go to the toilet. ( none of our functions are considered acceptable in public) it's all hidden away.

Women's periods for example, some don't even like packets of sanitary towels on show in the bathroom when guests are coming, but toilet rolls in plain sight is acceptable.
Women have been victimised in religions too, because periods are treated with suspicion as they also point to our animal roots.

Childbirth also, look at all the churching/cleansing rituals that occur before a woman is considered ' clean'..

Woman's functions are also a reminder of our animal roots and mortality.

Look at all the superstitions that has grown up around that.

Breast feeding is just another reminder that makes some squeamish, although some people may not realise why they feel that.

It's taught, subconciously.


People object specifically to boobs being used for their original animal  purpose(breastfeeding), but may not object to boobs on show other than that.

There isn't that fuss on the beach.

It's all about shattering someone's self perception on a subconcious level.

That's my opinion of it.

[Harrowby Hall]

I agree with much of what you say here, Rose. However, I also think that religion plays a role. The Christian religion, in the Middle Ages, demonised sex. Breasts were fine in paintings of Madonna and Child but sinful when portrayed otherwise in art. Think of portrayals of Samson and Delilah - she is always shown as a half-naked hairdresser.

Human breasts are an important secondary sex characteristic which is not possessed by other animals. In other species the mammary glands only enlarge for the purpose of lactation and then shrink away after weaning - ask anyone who has had a dog or a cat which has given birth. Human females have mammary glands which behave in exactly the same manner but they are encased within large masses of fat which give them a unique permanency.

Our society has been conditioned to view breasts as sexual objects, hence they should be hidden. When seen in public with babies attached too many people cannot detach them from their erotic connotations or - more significantly - believe that other people will be aroused by the sight and it should therefore be banned.

[Brownie]

Your last point : ",,,believe that other people will be aroused by the sight", is very true.
I remember my mother saying that she would have been embarrassed by topless bathers (when it first started happening here), if she was in the company of, say, my uncle.  Now she would not have consciously thought that my uncle would necessarily have been aroused, too deep for her, it was an instinctive reaction on her part, and I've come across it in other, older women.  Times change and so do attitudes, who thinks twice now about topless bathers.

Not many object to breast feeding in public though it is usually done quite discreetly.  People even breast feed in church, why not?

I suppose the downside is that there is no longer much in the way of mystique about bodies, the idea of uncovering something that is special and beautiful, must be disappearing because everyone knows what boobs look like, everything else too.

This bit of your post made me laugh:  "In other species the mammary glands only enlarge for the purpose of lactation and then shrink away after weaning"

In other species male bits shrink away after mating too!  They are quite hidden.  Probably for protection, if they were dangling about they could be caught on branches etc.  Or be bitten  .
 

[Harrowby Hall]

In other species male bits shrink away after mating too!  They are quite hidden.  Probably for protection, if they were dangling about they could be caught on branches etc.  Or be bitten  .

Ah, yes. Wicked Willie - man's best friend. There is evidence, in the form of countless online video extracts, of such implements being bitten ....

Again, the human penis is very interesting. Most mammal species ensure its penetrative capability by containing a bone - the baculum. Homo sapiens uses hydraulics to achieve this purpose. Some species, like horses, use specially developed muscles to withdraw theirs into cavities in their bodies.

It has been suggested that the human penis does not contain a bone but uses blood pressure because sex is used expressively in humans rather than functionally, which means that coitus is many times more frequent than in other animals. It is also interesting to note that the human penis is several times the size of that of the gorilla and that its obvious existence, like females breasts, may be a secondary sex characteristic.

Oh, we are back to Floo's dangly bits, aren't we?

[SteveH]

Whilst necessary, it isn't pretty, like men's dangly bits for that matter, far better covered up, imo.

Quite agree.  people say that breast-feeding is a natural human activity to justify it's being done in public, but so are pissing, shitting, and shagging, and I don't particularly want to see any of them done in a public place.  I don't really mind breast-feeding as long as it's done discreetly, but the naturalness of it is an invalid argument.

[floo]

Whilst breast is supposedly best for a baby, no mother should beat herself up about it if she can't do it for whatever reason. I managed it for three months with our youngest girl, but couldn't breastfeed the older two.

I have mentioned this before but will repeat it. Our middle daughter breastfed her two lads until they were 12 months old, but needed some assistance from the Breastfeeding helpline as her youngest, had teeth and was chomping her nipples! The advice she was given was gobsmacking to say the least, and downright dangerous to the child. She was told not to stop feeding him but it was acceptable to file down his teeth. Have you ever heard of anything so CRAZY?

[Brownie]

You're not alone in feeling like that Steve but in truth women generally do breast feed discreetly.  They feel more comfortable lifting their shirt one side at a time than pulling one breast out over the top of it.  There's something neat and organised about that too.

However, what I do feel strongly is that a nursing mother should never ever be stressed about feeding her baby because stress is terribly upsetting and can mess up the breast feeding.  It should be a calm and comforting experience.  So if anyone does feel a bit embarrassed they must take their embarrassment outside, it's their problem.

I certainly wouldn't put feeding a baby in the same category as pissing, shitting or shagging, nor womens breasts in same cat as their vulvo-vaginal area, or men's genitals.  Why else is it permissible for a woman to be topless on a beach but not 'bottomless'  (unless one is a naturist) ?

-------------

HH, I laughed at your last post, it was very funny. I have an anecdote but will come back with it later.

[Gordon]

Quite agree.  people say that breast-feeding is a natural human activity to justify it's being done in public, but so are pissing, shitting, and shagging, and I don't particularly want to see any of them done in a public place.  I don't really mind breast-feeding as long as it's done discreetly, but the naturalness of it is an invalid argument.

One difference here though is surely the need of the child to feed when it requires to be fed, whereas the other activities you mention are (for the most part) manageable in terms of timing and location. 

[floo]

You're not alone in feeling like that Steve but in truth women generally do breast feed discreetly.  They feel more comfortable lifting their shirt one side at a time than pulling one breast out over the top of it.  There's something neat and organised about that too.

However, what I do feel strongly is that a nursing mother should never ever be stressed about feeding her baby because stress is terribly upsetting and can mess up the breast feeding.  It should be a calm and comforting experience.  So if anyone does feel a bit embarrassed they must take their embarrassment outside, it's their problem.

I certainly wouldn't put feeding a baby in the same category as pissing, shitting or shagging, nor womens breasts in same cat as their vulvo-vaginal area, or men's genitals.  Why else is it permissible for a woman to be topless on a beach but not 'bottomless'  (unless one is a naturist) ?

-------------

HH, I laughed at your last post, it was very funny. I have an anecdote but will come back with it later.

Is it permissible for a woman to be topless on a UK beach?

[Brownie]

Yes.

[Udayana]

Is it permissible for a woman to be topless on a UK beach?

Of-course it is.

All of these things are down to cultural or other social conventions. Urinating and defecating have often been communal in various societies. Whether or not someone doesn't like the look of "men's dangly bits" is neither here nor there.

[Brownie]

Bet she likes them in private.

[floo]

I am of the opinion the human body is best covered up!

[wigginhall]

I remember going down to Brighton beach once on a hot day.   We crashed out on the beach, fell asleep I think, anyway then I noticed that my son's eyes were out on stalks, and he was very restless.   I looked round and realized we'd ended up in the nudist beach.   I think his vote would be yes to topless sun-bathing. 

[Brownie]

The naturist beaches are usually off the beaten track, far away from prying eyes.

There's one called, "Norman's Beach" somewhere in Sussex, near Bexhill I think.  Never been but a friend of a friend likes going there.  It must be lovely to sea bathe in the nuddy.  I did it once when I was 15, in Cornwall at night.  There were a few of us, a bit of a beach party.

So I am told, part of the beautiful long Holkham Beach in Norfolk is naturist.  I've been there lots of times and never seen anyone without bathers but can imagine there is such a section because it is so far off the road, and a long walk from the car park.  Lots of sand dunes too and never crowded.

I suppose people breast feed on the beach, they take their babies on there so must do.  One place where no-one would object to feeding.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Wiggs,

I looked round and realized...

Of course you did Wiggo, of course you did...

Up there with, "The dog ate my homework Miss" and "I was just cleaning it and it went off in my hand Officer" 

[wigginhall]

I was just cleaning it and it went off - quite a good one.   I thought the normal teenage boy said, 'I was just checking it for warts, and it went off, sorry for the mess'. 

Every time we see that gambling ad now, with Ray Winstone, we embroider it.  It starts 'in my 'and I have ...' 

[Sriram]

But it's cultural Floo.

Women who dress in a Burka just see women as having more " private" bits.

Alternatively some African countries think nothing of women having their boobs on display 24/7 it's normal dress, and not private.


Imo subconsciously people (in the west) often don't like seeing a woman breast feed in public because it serves as a reminder of our animal roots.
(Deep down I think even non religious people can display that attitude, because  it's learnt)

So some people feel squeamish about facing up to their roots and feel they shouldn't be offended, by having to face it in public.

IMO There isn't much more natural and beautiful, than breast feeding a baby.

It causes some people offence on a subconcious level because they are forced to see something they think of as an animal thing and that, that's where we originate.

Therefore, it can be seen as offensive. Even with Athiests who believe we evolved because it's a learnt attitude.

 Our society / culture teaches us we shouldn't do (and it's not acceptable to do anything in public) something that is relating to our animal nature, which is likely to remind people they are descended from animals.

Example : , have sex, breast feed babies, give birth, go to the toilet. ( none of our functions are considered acceptable in public) it's all hidden away.

Women's periods for example, some don't even like packets of sanitary towels on show in the bathroom when guests are coming, but toilet rolls in plain sight is acceptable.
Women have been victimised in religions too, because periods are treated with suspicion as they also point to our animal roots.

Childbirth also, look at all the churching/cleansing rituals that occur before a woman is considered ' clean'..

Woman's functions are also a reminder of our animal roots and mortality.

Look at all the superstitions that has grown up around that.

Breast feeding is just another reminder that makes some squeamish, although some people may not realise why they feel that.

It's taught, subconciously.


People object specifically to boobs being used for their original animal  purpose(breastfeeding), but may not object to boobs on show other than that.

There isn't that fuss on the beach.

It's all about shattering someone's self perception on a subconcious level.

That's my opinion of it.

Hi Rose,

I have written about this before.

IMO...evolution has a direction and we humans are branching off from the animal kingdom and developing traits that are increasingly divergent from other animals. It is therefore natural that we spontaneously try to shed those traits and characteristics that bind us to the animal kingdom.  This is not only as regards our bodies but also in terms of our behavior and intellectual traits.

Spiritual practices and religions have always tried to wean us away from our animal tendencies and encourage our human qualities of cooperation, altruism, empathy, sacrifice, love, intellect and other such. Human culture and civilization have been moving in tandem with evolution and pushing us in the right direction.   

In Hinduism we believe that all of us have lived as animals at some time in the past and through spiritual development, we have now acquired human form.  All humans do not belong in  one single category. We form a spectrum starting with people who have more animal like traits at one end, gradually progressing to people who have very little of the animal traits, at the other end.  People who shed all animal traits are said to become  free (mukth) and liberated....never to be reborn on earth.

Just some thoughts.

Cheers.

Sriram 

[Sassy]

Much ado about nothing...

They provide changing rooms why not a nursing room where mothers can go and feed their babies in peace.

That way no one is offended and the world is put to rights once more.

[Harrowby Hall]

Much ado about nothing...

They provide changing rooms why not a nursing room where mothers can go and feed their babies in peace.

That way no one is offended and the world is put to rights once more.

It is not a bad idea, Sass, an obligation that a comfortable, clean and peaceful room should be an obligation in all public buildings , restaurants, department stores etc. But what this will do is isolate nursing mothers from their friends and families and reinforce the idea that breast feeding is a secretive and solitary practice.

Segregation itself could well be considered to be offensive.

[Brownie]

It might but on the other hand a nursing room would be comfortable, completely stress free.  It's not about breasts but about changing nappies and cleaning babies.

I was looking at the programme or whatever you call it for this year's Royal Norfolk show (reason: my old man's firm had a stand there), and noted that there was a place for women to breast feed babies in private and comfort.  Seemed like a good idea.