Author Topic: The Core of What Bothers Me About Donald Trump  (Read 20399 times)

Keith Maitland

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The Core of What Bothers Me About Donald Trump
« on: July 31, 2016, 02:40:16 AM »
The core of what bothers me about Donald Trump is the vacuousness of his speech. He will literally say the same thing 3 times in a row and it was meaningless the first time. It is significant that he never manages to utter a single, extemporaneous string of sentences that is deep, insightful or even interesting. This reveals something about him.

Here is an analogy.

Imagine you have an urn and every time you reach into it you pull out another piece of junk. It has broken glass and nothing of value. While it might seem unlikely, it is not impossible that something of tremendous value is also in there. You could pull a diamond out of there if you keep fishing around. Now this is possible because what you pull out at each round doesn't really indicate what else is in there.

Minds are not like that. Ideas are connected. The ability to reason well for instance is transferable from one domain to another. And so is an inability to reason. A desire not to seem incoherent -- this is something that intelligent, well informed people tend to have. When you hear people speak on topics that are crucial to the most important enterprise they are engaging and all they've got is bluster and bombast and banality strewn with factual errors, it is quite irrational to believe that there is a brilliant mind behind all that just waiting to get out. Trump is not hiding his light under a bushel. He is all bushel.

William Shakespeare said, "All the world's a stage" more than 400 years ago. And today, many people want a former reality-show star and businessman to be the most powerful man on earth. They say it is because career politicians are too "politically correct" when they speak. But maybe it is also because these people are too jaded, bored and uninformed to care about the issues. And that combination can make them sitting ducks for people who can entertain them with dazzling rhetoric. Perhaps in the future we will learn to distinguish entertainment from politics, and avoid getting caught in this situation again.

Sriram

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Re: The Core of What Bothers Me About Donald Trump
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2016, 05:07:45 AM »

If you have been eating everything right but still have some stomach discomfort...you'll tend to throw caution to the winds and gobble up something tasty. To hell with it.....whatever happens happens!

Its probably the same in politics. If you have been choosing all the politically correct and sensible guys but things aren't looking up...why not give someone like Trump a chance. It can't get any worse anyway....and it'll probably stir things up a bit.  Something new and.... different. It might even work!!

Brexit was also probably a result of the same attitude.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 07:11:40 AM by Sriram »

torridon

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Re: The Core of What Bothers Me About Donald Trump
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2016, 08:22:55 AM »
If you have been eating everything right but still have some stomach discomfort...you'll tend to throw caution to the winds and gobble up something tasty. To hell with it.....whatever happens happens!

Its probably the same in politics. If you have been choosing all the politically correct and sensible guys but things aren't looking up...why not give someone like Trump a chance. It can't get any worse anyway....and it'll probably stir things up a bit.  Something new and.... different. It might even work!!

Brexit was also probably a result of the same attitude.

Who says things couldn't get worse ? Things could easily get worse and if America tires of having thinking people at the helm and puts some populist demagogue in charge that is going to impact on all of us.

floo

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Re: The Core of What Bothers Me About Donald Trump
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2016, 08:27:44 AM »
If you have been eating everything right but still have some stomach discomfort...you'll tend to throw caution to the winds and gobble up something tasty. To hell with it.....whatever happens happens!

Its probably the same in politics. If you have been choosing all the politically correct and sensible guys but things aren't looking up...why not give someone like Trump a chance. It can't get any worse anyway....and it'll probably stir things up a bit.  Something new and.... different. It might even work!!

Brexit was also probably a result of the same attitude.

It would get one hell of a lot worse with the insane Trump in charge! He would be a danger to the whole world.

L.A.

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Re: The Core of What Bothers Me About Donald Trump
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2016, 08:33:38 AM »
Quote
The core of what bothers me about Donald Trump is the vacuousness of his speech. He will literally say the same thing 3 times in a row and it was meaningless the first time. It is significant that he never manages to utter a single, extemporaneous string of sentences that is deep, insightful or even interesting. This reveals something about him.

It's simply the old trick that if you repeat a lie often enough people will start to believe you. The technique was used quite a lot by the LEAVE campaign recently.
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: The Core of What Bothers Me About Donald Trump
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2016, 09:02:58 AM »
It's simply the old trick that if you repeat a lie often enough people will start to believe you. The technique was used quite a lot by the LEAVE campaign recently.

Yes, he is certainly doing that. He is also using expressions that have little meaning (without complex definition) and using them as slogans: "Let's make America great again". What on Earth does that mean? (The Bexiteers were droning on about "regaining sovereignty" - equally vacuous.) He is pandering to - and massaging the egos of - a great number of people who have never learned to examine their own values or those of the nation they inhabit.

However, I wonder if his latest apparent trick may not be his undoing? His apparent "friendship" with Vladimir Putin. It is speculated that Trump has engaged Russian internet security scammers to break into the Democratic Party's computer system. The same right wing electorate that he is trying to woo may be the same people who regard Russia as the great "communist" threat to the "greatness" to which they aspire.
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Sriram

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Re: The Core of What Bothers Me About Donald Trump
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2016, 09:29:58 AM »
Who says things couldn't get worse ? Things could easily get worse and if America tires of having thinking people at the helm and puts some populist demagogue in charge that is going to impact on all of us.

Who are the 'thinking' people?  Was Ronald Reagan a 'thinking' person?  Was Bill Clinton a thinking person? Was Carter a thinking person? Was George Bush a thinking person?

Change is good!  We all like status quo and what we think is safe. But sometimes dramatic change can bring good things in the long run.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 10:13:51 AM by Sriram »

Sriram

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Re: The Core of What Bothers Me About Donald Trump
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2016, 10:05:30 AM »
It would get one hell of a lot worse with the insane Trump in charge! He would be a danger to the whole world.


What exactly could he do that could endanger the whole world?  All that stuff about the nuclear button is nonsense. Things don't work that way in real life.

Ok...he may tweak some immigration policies and stuff. Nothing that other countries are not attempting to do.

Leaders are no longer as important or pivotal as we think. The system runs on its own steam.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 10:15:23 AM by Sriram »

floo

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Re: The Core of What Bothers Me About Donald Trump
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2016, 10:28:11 AM »
Trump is a racist, homophobic and generally nasty guy who would bring the US to its knees as well as putting the rest of the world in danger. His insane comments  could provoke WW3.

Sriram

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Re: The Core of What Bothers Me About Donald Trump
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2016, 10:44:57 AM »
Trump is a racist, homophobic and generally nasty guy who would bring the US to its knees as well as putting the rest of the world in danger. His insane comments  could provoke WW3.


Were all the earlier presidents saints and sages?  ::)

People talk lots of things during campaigning. When they get elected, the system keeps them in check. Nothing really happens.

Harrowby Hall

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Re: The Core of What Bothers Me About Donald Trump
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2016, 10:51:48 AM »
Trump is also climate change denier. In addition, he adheres to the belief that vaccination is damaging.

One factor that we may have to consider is that although the President of the United States is a very prominent world figure, that is generally through his ceremonial head of state position. As the chief executive of the USA, his political power is considerably constrained. The much vaunted Constitution of the United States of America, by its insistence on the separation of powers, constrains the president considerably. He has no control over legislation and his implementation of legislation is monitored by the Supreme Court.

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jeremyp

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Re: The Core of What Bothers Me About Donald Trump
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2016, 11:55:04 AM »
It can't get any worse anyway.

Yes it can. In the history of the World, life in the USA is pretty much as good as its ever been at the moment.

I don't understand why people in Western democracies seem to think everything is going wrong, it's not.
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Re: The Core of What Bothers Me About Donald Trump
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2016, 11:56:37 AM »
Who are the 'thinking' people?  Was Ronald Reagan a 'thinking' person?  Was Bill Clinton a thinking person? Was Carter a thinking person? Was George Bush a thinking person?

Yes, certainly in comparison to Trump.
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floo

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Re: The Core of What Bothers Me About Donald Trump
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2016, 12:13:18 PM »

Were all the earlier presidents saints and sages?  ::)

People talk lots of things during campaigning. When they get elected, the system keeps them in check. Nothing really happens.

Compared to Trump, the others were saints and sages, even the worst of them!

Keith Maitland

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Re: The Core of What Bothers Me About Donald Trump
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2016, 02:22:56 PM »
Sriram,

If you have been eating everything right but still have some stomach discomfort...you'll tend to throw caution to the winds and gobble up something tasty. To hell with it.....whatever happens happens!

Its probably the same in politics. If you have been choosing all the politically correct and sensible guys but things aren't looking up...why not give someone like Trump a chance. It can't get any worse anyway....and it'll probably stir things up a bit.  Something new and.... different. It might even work!!

Brexit was also probably a result of the same attitude.


The question that comes to mind for many is what is the allure of Trump and how is it possible his supporters seem unwilling to carefully assess the credibility of his declarations. Despite the fact that Trump is on record making statements that are hateful, hurtful, devoid of serious thought, self-aggrandizing and preposterous, there are many who continue to drink the Kool-Aid.

In psychology, there is a construct called cognitive dissonance. Basically the idea goes that once people make up their minds about something, they become emotionally wedded to a person, idea or plan of action. Despite being confronted with evidence that contradicts a given thought or commitment, people tend to ignore the data at hand rather than modify or change their position. Sometimes it feels good to give into or gratify an impulse. Why not order that dessert or buy that pricey new outfit or toy. But when it comes to making big choices that could prove to be life altering, it is important that adults take a deep breath, ignore a momentary high or fascination and take a deeper look at what they are buying.

The election of a President is a serious matter that can impact the fate of all Americans. Such a choice reverberates throughout the world.

Impulse is easy and may lead to immediate gratification. Critical thinking is hard and may require putting aside a temporary high or the illusion of security in order to do what is right for one's self and others.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 05:27:22 PM by Keith Maitland »

Sriram

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Re: The Core of What Bothers Me About Donald Trump
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2016, 04:03:25 PM »
Keith,

We are emotional beings. Rational thinking is just a tool we use now and then...and not a part of our being. 

Like I said and like you also pointed out...every now and then we feel the need to do something different, something daring, something that will break the monotony.  Enough of the same thing over and over again. Enough of the controls.

Sometimes it happens even in politics. If things get too prim and propah, too boring and predictable, we like to stir things up a bit.  Some excitement. Take a chance and see what happens.

Someone strikes a cord about some issues that have been bothering us. Something emotional. Something primeval and fundamental. Then it can be very powerful and overpowering. Rationality is weak and tiresome in comparison.

Why do you think ISIS is so powerful? Why is religion in general so powerful?

Its not just about hate. Its about basic emotions being stirred up.  It can make people feel alive and powerful.


L.A.

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Re: The Core of What Bothers Me About Donald Trump
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2016, 07:20:11 PM »

What exactly could he do that could endanger the whole world?  All that stuff about the nuclear button is nonsense. Things don't work that way in real life.

Ok...he may tweak some immigration policies and stuff. Nothing that other countries are not attempting to do.

Leaders are no longer as important or pivotal as we think. The system runs on its own steam.

Whether or not he ever gets into the position where 'pushing the button' becomes a likely option, the fact is that the President of America does have the power to declare war (which is quite bizarre when you consider that he can't even get the gun laws reformed without support from Congress and the Senate)

Trump claims to be a businessman who can 'cut-deals' with the likes of Putin, which sounds 'kind of' reassuring to his followers - but what is he going to do if the deal goes wrong and he believes that he has been double-crossed?

He is not a stable personality and the prospects are quite frightening.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 07:22:19 PM by L.A. »
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: The Core of What Bothers Me About Donald Trump
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2016, 09:52:10 PM »
Whether or not he ever gets into the position where 'pushing the button' becomes a likely option, the fact is that the President of America does have the power to declare war (which is quite bizarre when you consider that he can't even get the gun laws reformed without support from Congress and the Senate)

Almost ... but not quite. 

It is not Congress and the Senate, it is the House of Representatives and the Senate. Both together comprise Congress. Under the US constitution only Congress can make law - the president may propose legislation but he cannot enact it.

Among the roles performed by the president is Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces. This enables him to declare war. If he does declare war he is supposed to get the approval of Congress. To be able to continue the war he needs money - and he can only get this through Congress. This does mean though that an ... err ... erratic president can do a lot of damage before being brought under control.

I suspect that the constitutional checks and balances on presidential power would restrict a President Trump (ugh) from making a complete arsehole of himself. I suppose one possible scenario may be a president presenting himself as the people's champion being obstructed by an out-of-touch Congress.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 09:56:13 PM by Harrowby Hall »
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Keith Maitland

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Re: The Core of What Bothers Me About Donald Trump
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2016, 06:14:58 AM »
Sriram,

Quote
We are emotional beings. Rational thinking is just a tool we use now and then...and not a part of our being.


But Mr. Trump doesn’t know the difference between the Quds Force and the Kurds. He can’t identify the nuclear triad, the American strategic nuclear arsenal’s delivery system. He had never heard of Brexit until a few weeks before the vote. He thinks the Constitution has 12 Articles rather than seven. He uses the vocabulary of a fifth grader. Most damning of all, he traffics in off-the-wall conspiracy theories by insinuating that President Obama was born in Kenya and that Ted Cruz’s father was involved in the Kennedy assassination. It is hardly surprising to read Tony Schwartz, the ghostwriter for Mr. Trump’s best seller “The Art of the Deal,” say, " I seriously doubt that Trump has ever read a book straight through in his adult life.”

The Trump acolytes claim it doesn’t matter; he can hire experts to advise him. But experts always disagree with one another and it is the president alone who must make the most difficult decisions in the world. That’s not something he can do since he lacks the most basic grounding in the issues and is prey to fundamental misconceptions.

In a way, the joke’s on the Republican Party: After decades of masquerading as the “stupid party,” that’s what it has become. But if an unapologetic ignoramus wins the presidency, the consequences will be no laughing matter.

Even if we can avoid the calamity of a Trump presidency, however, the G.O.P. still has a lot of soul-searching to do. Mr. Trump is as much a symptom as a cause of the party’s anti-intellectual drift. The party needs to rethink its growing anti-intellectual bias and its reflexive aversion to elites. Catering to populist anger with extremist proposals that are certain to fail is not a viable strategy for political success.



Sriram

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Re: The Core of What Bothers Me About Donald Trump
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2016, 07:05:29 AM »
Keith,

I am not supporting Trump. What happens in America doesn't bother me at all. It has very little impact on my country and my life.

What I am saying is that we are making too much of this Trump issue. Leaders nowadays are not as pivotal as they used to be. Most other people in Govt. are well educated and well in control.

America has done plenty of damage in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq etc. without Trump.   If George Bush and Blair can get away with Iraq (which was a private war between Bush and Saddam)....there is nothing more damaging that Trump can do. And I don't believe he is as senseless as is being made out. All his bluff and bluster will simmer down if he is elected.

Hillary is not some kind of a genius or paragon of virtue in any case.

We are overreacting.

SusanDoris

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Re: The Core of What Bothers Me About Donald Trump
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2016, 07:27:27 AM »
I cannot think of anything about Trump that does not bother me.
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Aruntraveller

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Re: The Core of What Bothers Me About Donald Trump
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2016, 07:28:40 AM »
We are not over reacting.
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torridon

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Re: The Core of What Bothers Me About Donald Trump
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2016, 07:45:51 AM »
I think we all need to worry if a climate change denier becomes leader of the world's largest CO2 emitting economy. People in that position need to be able to listen to advice, weigh things up and consider long term policy whereas Mr Trump comes across more like some opinionated bloke down the golf club after a couple of beers.  Maybe it's all front, calculated to appeal to a middle America tired of a politically correct political class; a man with a common touch, like Reagan, but with more hair.

I see a parallel in Trump's popularity with the UK Brexit vote; it is the ordinary working man making his voice heard, and his voice is saying that he is not really interested the aspirations and vision and progressive agendas of the political class.  It's a selling out of long term vision for a narrower, short term, self interest.

Harrowby Hall

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Re: The Core of What Bothers Me About Donald Trump
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2016, 08:01:02 AM »


I am not supporting Trump. What happens in America doesn't bother me at all. It has very little impact on my country and my life.

What we do not know is how Indian media are treating the US presidential campaign. India is busy positioning itself as a major regional power and not give this process the same kind of attention and analysis as the UK media.


 
Quote
What I am saying is that we are making too much of this Trump issue. Leaders nowadays are not as pivotal as they used to be. Most other people in Govt. are well educated and well in control.

Here, I think, Sriram may be a little off target. In the US constitution the president IS pivotal. All federal executive authority is possessed by the president alone - the "Cabinet" is a cabinet of advisors and each individual can only act with the authority of the president. Cabinet members are appointed by the president and can be dismissed by him. A President Trump (ugh) will appoint people who share his (myopic and astigmatic) vision.

A President Trump (ugh) will relish opposition from the other powers of government. It will give him the opportunity to do what he does best - vilify, excoriate and insult those whom he perceives to stand in his way or fail to meet his expectations of "Americanism". He will present himself as the champion of the tribal reactionary. America will suffer. The world will suffer. India will suffer.

Look at what has happened just during the last day or so. He insults the parents of a dead American "hero" who happened to be a muslim. Does he try to extract himself from this gaffe? No, he appears blissfully ignorant of the pain he has caused.



Quote
We are overreacting.

Bollocks.
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: The Core of What Bothers Me About Donald Trump
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2016, 08:04:53 AM »


I see a parallel in Trump's popularity with the UK Brexit vote; it is the ordinary working man making his voice heard, and his voice is saying that he is not really interested the aspirations and vision and progressive agendas of the political class.  It's a selling out of long term vision for a narrower, short term, self interest.

Couldn't put it better.
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