Irish consequences of Brexit

[Nearly Sane]

Im sure we can work something out with those passports with the chips to make it less laborious for the people in NI to visit mainland uk.

So they can come easily into mainland uk, just as they do now.

I'm sure there is an answer, we have the technology now 

All they need is a special chip, then just carry on as normal.

The chip might not even have to be on a passport.

Mark of the beast

[Aruntraveller]

Passports aren't free though, the cost would have to go against all passports.

Oh so as well as the extra admin that it will cost the government, we are all lumbered with extra costs as well. It's looking better and better this BREXIT lark. 

[Bubbles]

Oh so as well as the extra admin that it will cost the government, we are all lumbered with extra costs as well. It's looking better and better this BREXIT lark. 

So, do you have any ideas on how a workable system could be put in place?

Or have you just washed your hands of any responsibility, now people have voted Brexit?

Just because I voted remain doesn't mean I can't come up with some ideas.

What's yours?

[Aruntraveller]

So, do you have any ideas on how a workable system could be put in place?

Or have you just washed your hands of any responsibility, now people have voted Brexit?

Just because I voted remain doesn't mean I can't come up with some ideas.

What's yours?

Nope - I'm not paid for that. My responsibility was to vote for the best option in the referendum. I can't be bothered to think of ways out of this whole sorry mess. So yes I have washed my hands of any responsibility because I am not responsible, the Brextieers are. So every time there is a job cut I hope it is someone who voted to Leave. Every time there are cuts in services I hope it's the areas that voted to leave that are affected proportionally most (which it probably will be anyway - because the very areas that voted heavily to leave were generally the areas that received most in EU funds).

I'm now going to do what the anti EU brigade of have done from decades and carp from the sidelines about what a waste of money it has all been, and how we aren't taking control back of anything and the fact that they have screwed the country gooad and proper, without dong anything to improve the situation.

After all there was no plan from the Exit side - and now we are making it up on the hoof. Never advisable at the best of times - which this isn't anyway.

[Bubbles]

Nope - I'm not paid for that. My responsibility was to vote for the best option in the referendum. I can't be bothered to think of ways out of this whole sorry mess. So yes I have washed my hands of any responsibility because I am not responsible, the Brextieers are. So every time there is a job cut I hope it is someone who voted to Leave. Every time there are cuts in services I hope it's the areas that voted to leave that are affected proportionally most (which it probably will be anyway - because the very areas that voted heavily to leave were generally the areas that received most in EU funds).

I'm now going to do what the anti EU brigade of have done from decades and carp from the sidelines about what a waste of money it has all been, and how we aren't taking control back of anything and the fact that they have screwed the country gooad and proper, without dong anything to improve the situation.

After all there was no plan from the Exit side - and now we are making it up on the hoof. Never advisable at the best of times - which this isn't anyway.

Lots of people don't get paid for things they do, for responsibilities they take on.

Thank goodness some people are prepared to do so. Lots of our services are supported by volunteers who don't get paid.

Theresa May, who also voted remain, isn't going to sit back and refuse to take responsibility because the vote didn't go her way.

What this country needs now is some good ideas, from everyone.

Anyone can sit back and criticise and scoff from the background.

That's the easy route.

It takes something more to be the sort of person who can get up and find workable ideas and positive outcomes, regardless of how the vote went.

It's those people we need in this country  now, people who can look past all the problems and their own pride and look for answers that work.


It doesn't matter if they voted leave or remain.

I think I owe that to this country to try and support people like that, no matter how I or they voted.

I don't care what someone voted, no one should be discriminated against over it and your ill will towards them is staggering.

All I can say is, that's not who I want to be Trent.

Is that really who you want to be?

[Aruntraveller]

At the moment yes it is Rose.

Now you can be all holier than thou if you wish. I've worked all my life in this country (barring a year in Poland) so I'm not about to be made to feel guilty by you or anyone else about how I feel re the EU referendum. It's nothing to do with my pride - rather my utter disgust at a system that allowed this to happen in the first place.

As I say - Nigel Farage, the Daily Express et al have had decades of scoffing and lying from the sidelines - so I have my work cut out to catch up. But I will.

Here's some lies to be going on with: Nigel Farage smells of cheese. Boris Johnson is a brillaint politician and will make a great foreign secretary. Theresa May has the sun shining out of her behind.

My ill will as you put it - is only being returned in kind. I know turn the other cheek is popular in some circles, but I am feeling in a distinctly more eye for an eye mood.

[Udayana]

At the end of the day the people that will be most adversely affected by leaving the EU are the families of those that voted to leave. The so called "elites" are expert at making the best of difficult circumstances  and will, in broad terms, retain their position; coming out better off whatever happens.

Why interfere in the Brexit process and then be accused of undermining it when it goes belly-up?

[Bubbles]

At the moment yes it is Rose.

Now you can be all holier than thou if you wish. I've worked all my life in this country (barring a year in Poland) so I'm not about to be made to feel guilty by you or anyone else about how I feel re the EU referendum. It's nothing to do with my pride - rather my utter disgust at a system that allowed this to happen in the first place.

As I say - Nigel Farage, the Daily Express et al have had decades of scoffing and lying from the sidelines - so I have my work cut out to catch up. But I will.

Here's some lies to be going on with: Nigel Farage smells of cheese. Boris Johnson is a brillaint politician and will make a great foreign secretary. Theresa May has the sun shining out of her behind.

My ill will as you put it - is only being returned in kind. I know turn the other cheek is popular in some circles, but I am feeling in a distinctly more eye for an eye mood.

Why on earth would you want to catch them up?
What would you prove anyway? That you are as bad or worse than them?

The system that's in place allowed us the freedom to vote in the first place.

I don't think it was wise in this case, but we were offered the freedom to do so.

The system has given us the freedom of the vote, with this comes dangers.

Would you rather have a system that oppressed more?

The trouble with David Cameron was he was inclined to be too democratic in some ways hence the Scottish referendum and the Brexit vote.

Both have the potential to harm the uk.

However by preventing public opinion and referendums, there are elements of dictatorship.

If you give the government powers to run the country to the countries advantage but not necessarily to what the majority thinks is the advantage, isn't that dictatorship?

In some ways it shows how free we are in this country and how our system does take into account public opinion.

The downside is that public opinion can be ill informed and wrong.

We had the vote and the people voted.

This is what freedom means.

It means you have the opportunity to get it wrong and suffer as a consequence.

If you lived under a less free society like communism  what you could choose would already be dictated to you.

In our country, you have the freedom to vote against government advice.

If you think about it, and dictators elsewhere........ That's quite something really.


 

[Bubbles]

At the end of the day the people that will be most adversely affected by leaving the EU are the families of those that voted to leave. The so called "elites" are expert at making the best of difficult circumstances  and will, in broad terms, retain their position; coming out better off whatever happens.

Why interfere in the Brexit process and then be accused of undermining it when it goes belly-up?

Because you wouldn't be undermining it or interfering with it.

You would be giving it a fair try and trying for a positive outcome even though it wasn't what you personally voted for.

If it then failed, no one could accuse you of undermining it by a negative attitude or stance.

You could then honestly say, " I gave it my best shot but it was a bad idea to start with".

Also you seem to assume it was only the poor that voted leave, that isn't so.

[Aruntraveller]

Why on earth would you want to catch them up?
What would you prove anyway? That you are as bad or worse than them?

The system that's in place allowed us the freedom to vote in the first place.

I don't think it was wise in this case, but we were offered the freedom to do so.

The system has given us the freedom of the vote, with this comes dangers.

Would you rather have a system that oppressed more?

The trouble with David Cameron was he was inclined to be too democratic in some ways hence the Scottish referendum and the Brexit vote.

Both have the potential to harm the uk.

However by preventing public opinion and referendums, there are elements of dictatorship.

If you give the government powers to run the country to the countries advantage but not necessarily to what the majority thinks is the advantage, isn't that dictatorship?

In some ways it shows how free we are in this country and how our system does take into account public opinion.

The downside is that public opinion can be ill informed and wrong.

We had the vote and the people voted.

This is what freedom means.

It means you have the opportunity to get it wrong and suffer as a consequence.

If you lived under a less free society like communism  what you could choose would already be dictated to you.

In our country, you have the freedom to vote against government advice.

If you think about it, and dictators elsewhere........ That's quite something really.

We elect a government to make decisions on our behalf. It's called a representative democracy - as in they are supposed to represent us. The reason we have this system, in part, is that our elected representatives have the time to read and have access to, documents, statistics and analysis etc that we do not have the time nor inclination to look at. They then act on what they consider best for the country.  We don't elect them to hold referenda every 5 minutes as a way to try to save their own party interests, whicch is what the EU referendum was always about. It wasn't anything to do with the freedom to vote.

So no lectures about democracy please.

[jeremyp]

Yes you do.

To fly from England to Glasgow you need your passport.

No, you need photo identification and that's not because you are crossing a boarder but because you are on a plane.

The same applies to flying to the RoI by the way.

[Udayana]

Because you wouldn't be undermining it or interfering with it.

You would be giving it a fair try and trying for a positive outcome even though it wasn't what you personally voted for.

If it then failed, no one could accuse you of undermining it by a negative attitude or stance.

You could then honestly say, " I gave it my best shot but it was a bad idea to start with".

Also you seem to assume it was only the poor that voted leave, that isn't so.

Not necessarily the poor, but whingers unable to appreciate how well off they actually are.

No negative attitude or stance, just hanging on and trying to enjoy the roller coaster ride now that we are on it.

On the Irish question itself, I'm sure that it is well within the capabilities of the people of Eire and NI to solve these problem themselves - certainly sure they don't need or want any suggestions from me

[wigginhall]

The obvious solution is to tax Brexit-voting areas more heavily, so that if the £350 million is not enough to pay the shortfall, the Brexit tax will cover it.   It's unfair on Remain voters though in Brexit areas.   Surely, human ingenuity can work out a way for them to be given a rebate?

[this is a joke]

[Dicky Underpants]

No, you need photo identification and that's not because you are crossing a boarder but because you are on a plane.

The same applies to flying to the RoI by the way.

This is true, and it usually takes the form of the modern driving licence. An N. Irish friend of mine is particularly perplexed by this stipulation, since his British passport is outdated and he wishes to apply for an Irish passport, to which he is entitled. His driving licence is of the old type, without photo, but which is valid in perpetuity. He therefore needs to get a more modern driving licence with photo identity on it - which is not perpetually valid, and to get it, he would have to give up the old licence which is.

[jeremyp]

This is true, and it usually takes the form of the modern driving licence. An N. Irish friend of mine is particularly perplexed by this stipulation, since his British passport is outdated and he wishes to apply for an Irish passport, to which he is entitled. His driving licence is of the old type, without photo, but which is valid in perpetuity. He therefore needs to get a more modern driving licence with photo identity on it - which is not perpetually valid, and to get it, he would have to give up the old licence which is.

If I were him, I'd bite the bullet and get a photo card licence. They're much more convenient to carry and durable and they work as photo id.

[Sassy]

Another element of 'Project Fear' that is becoming Project Reality.

The problem was dismissed by that phrase and ignored (so much for investigative journalism!) - but it's certainly not gone away. We are left with a very serious problem that (for a change) is not simply economics.

Are we not grown up enough and mature in our relations to maintain a peaceful liaison?

Goodness, I hope we have more than an EU membership to keep us together.