Twenty strange religious beliefs

[bluehillside Retd.]

Brownie,

Ippy, you could add a few more questions if you want - please.

Well, I hear that there's a religious faith that thinks a man (who was partly a god, but not as kosher a god as his dad) was clinically dead for a bit and then alive again, only this chap is also part of a "trinity" or some such. There's a talking snake involved somehow too by the way.

How much more "out there" bonkers do you want?

[BeRational]

Do you have beliefs about things that are not facts? E.g. Morality?

I have my own views on morality informed from my upbringing and from interacting with other people.

[BeRational]

What is a 'true belief'?
So, do you have any beliefs at all?   

I care whether my beliefs are true so the evidence has to be appropriate and compelling for me.
I have lots of beliefs but no cherished beliefs and no beliefs that cannot be changed if new evidence comes to my attention.
None of my beliefs are 100% certain. All my beliefs could be wrong.

[Nearly Sane]

I have my own views on morality informed from my upbringing and from interacting with other people.

And these 'views' are surely beliefs in any sense of the word, and are not about facts.

[Hope]

I care whether my beliefs are true so the evidence has to be appropriate and compelling for me.

So, not necessarily 'true', but merely true for you.

I have lots of beliefs but no cherished beliefs and no beliefs that cannot be changed if new evidence comes to my attention.

What's a 'cherished belief'?

None of my beliefs are 100% certain. All my beliefs could be wrong.

I think all of us understand that our beliefs could be wrong, but can we carry on with life constantly doubting things?  Surely beliefs have to be taken as correct until such time as evidence indicates that they might not be?  In other words, we have to be positive, as opposed to negative.

[floo]

Questioning is good, faith or no faith. More extreme Christians, like one on this forum, think they are always right, but anyone with a different POV is wrong.

[Hope]

Questioning is good, faith or no faith.

Quite agree - and its interesting that both Jesus and that great feminist, Paul, advise that questioning is important.

[BeRational]

And these 'views' are surely beliefs in any sense of the word, and are not about facts.

They are based on assumptions like I would rather not be in pain and assume everyone feels that way.
I would rather be alive than dead etc

[BeRational]

So, not necessarily 'true', but merely true for you.
What's a 'cherished belief'?
I think all of us understand that our beliefs could be wrong, but can we carry on with life constantly doubting things?  Surely beliefs have to be taken as correct until such time as evidence indicates that they might not be?  In other words, we have to be positive, as opposed to negative.

True for everyone. Things that are true for me are things like my favourite colour which is just a matter of taste.
I want my beliefs as far as I can manage to be true for everyone.

A cherished believe is one you will not change because it makes you feel good. I doubt you would change your belief in a god, but I will.

[floo]

Quite agree - and its interesting that both Jesus and that great feminist, Paul, advise that questioning is important.

Feminist, Paul? TAKE MORE WATER WITH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He was the idiot who suggested women were silent in church, and should be subservient to their husbands!

[ippy]

Quite agree - and its interesting that both Jesus and that great feminist, Paul, advise that questioning is important.

What evidence do you have that would substantiate/confirm that this the said Paul and the other bloke did in fact say exactly what you think they have said, Hope?

I would imagine any evidence you think you have is on the tenuous side, like most of the religious stuff you've been taken in by; you know, similar to the other religious stuff you never have provided credible evidence for.

ippy

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Brownie,

Well, I hear that there's a religious faith that thinks a man (who was partly a god, but not as kosher a god as his dad) was clinically dead for a bit and then alive again, only this chap is also part of a "trinity" or some such. There's a talking snake involved somehow too by the way.

How much more "out there" bonkers do you want?

I'm taking it that you are not talking about mainstream Christianity here because that thinks a bloke was wholly God. If you are altering mainstream Christianity to make cheap fun while hoping to maintain a patina of being reasonably informed then that would be Bonkers.

Apologies for my micturations on your conflagration.

[Sebastian Toe]

I'm taking it that you are not talking about mainstream Christianity here because that thinks a bloke was wholly God.

Would that make Sassy, not a mainstream Christian?

[floo]

It depends on the definition of mainstream Christianity. I don't think Biblical literalists/ fundies, and the born again brigade are mainstream Christians.

[Hope]

It depends on the definition of mainstream Christianity. I don't think Biblical literalists/ fundies, and the born again brigade are mainstream Christians.

Noy quite sure what you mean by "Biblical fundies, and the born again brigade", Floo.  By definition, a Christian is born-again.  I assume, by 'Biblical fundies' you are referring those people who regard the Bible as the means by which we get to read and hear about God's plan for humanity, about Jesus' teaching and about how to live a God-fearing life.  In other words, that huge body of Christians who would regard themselves as mainstream.

[floo]

Noy quite sure what you mean by "Biblical fundies, and the born again brigade", Floo.  By definition, a Christian is born-again.  I assume, by 'Biblical fundies' you are referring those people who regard the Bible as the means by which we get to read and hear about God's plan for humanity, about Jesus' teaching and about how to live a God-fearing life.  In other words, that huge body of Christians who would regard themselves as mainstream.

By your definition a Christian is a 'born again' but that unpleasant dogma is NOT mainstream.

[Hope]

By your definition a Christian is a 'born again' but that unpleasant dogma is NOT mainstream.

Sorry, Floo, but it is one of the most mainstream understandings that there is.  If you are unsure of this, look at the story of Jesus and Nicodemus - John 3 - or look at 1 Peter 1.

[Bubbles]

By your definition a Christian is a 'born again' but that unpleasant dogma is NOT mainstream.

I think it is mainstream, but what the interpretation of what it means to be born again , varies.

Some churches just see it as meaning you attend a church and become and live life as a Christian others think it means something more.

So Christians I have known sometimes don't see the C of E members as having been "born again" because they have a different angle on it.

Born again, can then become exclusive, with people saying things like the c of e is dead etc.

But even the c of e has a concept of being born again, they just don't expect members to start speaking in tongues to prove they have it.

That's what I have found.

being born again is in the bible it's just the interpretations of what that means that changes.

The c of e doesn't expect its members to speak in tongues and doesn't see it as separate to living a church life, other even mainstream Christians ( Pentecostal) sometimes don't seem to see the members of c of e as very spiritual or born again.

It's a bit snobby, thinking other Christians arn't " born again' because they don't worship or speak in tongues in the same way.

But the idea of being born again is mainstream it's just the c of e version is more " sensible" imo

[Bubbles]

Sorry, Floo, but it is one of the most mainstream understandings that there is.  If you are unsure of this, look at the story of Jesus and Nicodemus - John 3 - or look at 1 Peter 1.

I don't agree because the understanding isn't the same.

There are different ideas of what born again means.

What it means in the c of e isn't what it means in your Pentecostal church.

Baptists have different ideas to the c of e for example.

[Brownie]

There are churches within the CofE whose members speak in tongues, Holy Trinity Brompton is the most well known but there are plenty of others.  I haven't been to HTB but have experienced that in a CofE church and amongst Anglicans, including clergy.  Alpha was born out of it.

The Catholic Church also has the 'Charismatic' wing and some churches run a course called : "Life in the Spirit".

Within the above congregations there are many who consider that someone who does not have 'the gift of tongues' "isn't quite there yet".  (I had it said to me, with a smile, many years ago.)

[floo]

Sorry, Floo, but it is one of the most mainstream understandings that there is.  If you are unsure of this, look at the story of Jesus and Nicodemus - John 3 - or look at 1 Peter 1.

According to you. Fortunately the majority of Christians aren't Biblical literalists or evangelicals.

[Bubbles]

There are churches within the CofE whose members speak in tongues, Holy Trinity Brompton is the most well known but there are plenty of others.  I haven't been to HTB but have experienced that in a CofE church and amongst Anglicans, including clergy.  Alpha was born out of it.

The Catholic Church also has the 'Charismatic' wing and some churches run a course called : "Life in the Spirit".

Within the above congregations there are many who consider that someone who does not have 'the gift of tongues' "isn't quite there yet".  (I had it said to me, with a smile, many years ago.)

See what you mean.
http://www.christianpost.com/news/archbishop-of-canterbury-on-speaking-in-tongues-it-just-comes-100848/

Most c of e I have come across hasn't had speaking in tongues

[Brownie]

You will find it in the more evangelical Anglican churches, Rose.  Not your average parish church.  However there is one (amongst three or four Anglican churches) near me,  I've not been there but have encountered two people who go.
Near to the Catholic church which I used to attend is another Catholic church which has quite a strong charismatic group (the rest of the church congregation carry on as usual).  I've been there twice but only to funerals.  Again I've known several people who are involved in the charismatic wing of the church and there is an annual five day conference in Norfolk.

[Bubbles]

According to you. Fortunately the majority of Christians aren't Biblical literalists or evangelicals.

When you get baptised in the Church of England being born again is part of it.

https://www.churchofengland.org/media/1190836/holy%20baptism.pdf

It's under introduction.

I haven't come across speaking in tongues in the c of e only from my ordained friend who was originally a Pentecostal.

She doesn't do it because it's not really expected in the c of e.

I think it depends how evangelical the branch of c of e is.

I would be a bit shocked if a c of e vicar started talking in tongues, I don't think it's accepted really.

I know I was sat between a Catholic father and an evangelical fundamentalist ( American)once and it was amusing because the catholic priest wasn't used to people talking about God like he was someone you routinely nattered to.

I think you are supposed to be pious in Catholicism and I think the other guy telling him what God had personally told him that particular morning was making him cringe.

The Catholics in the group knew it was just a different way of putting things and exchanged amused glances, but it wasn't their way.

Different groups have different ways, in fact as Brownie points out their are sub groups within the groups, so it's hard to define exactly.

Baptists, c of E, and other groups all follow mainstream teachings but they can be very different in how they realise them.

Born again has many interpretations, just like baptism ( whether you need total immersion or a little sprinkle.)

 

[Gordon]

There was a poster on the old BBC R&E called Luther Wesley Baxter (or something very similar) who used to say that Christians needed to be born again - but 'from above', where the 'from above' element was important.

I can't remember what this 'from above' involved, but perhaps someone else might.