Lorry driver found guilty of causing death of police officer in 2014

[Hope]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-36973529

A double-barrelled thread: 

1  What sentence do folk think iss appropriate for this driver when sentenced in September?
2  Is the standard sentence for using a phone in this way insufficient as a deterrent?

You can get an automatic fixed penalty notice if you’re caught using a hand-held phone while driving or riding. You’ll get 3 penalty points on your licence and a fine of £100.

Your case could also go to court and you could be disqualified from driving or riding and get a maximum fine of £1,000. Drivers of buses or goods vehicles could get a maximum fine of £2,500.

https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law

[Brownie]

That is really scary, more so when you think it was not illegal to use a mobile whilst driving.

The report says the man has sleep apnoea;  from the picture of him, he certainly looks like a candidate for sleep apnoea which is very dangerous.  However if that was a known condition before the accident (I can't remember if that was made clear or not), why was he still driving a lorry?

He was also driving at a far higher speed than allowed.

So, speeding and driving whilst looking at a text message.  Extremely careless driving. Setting aside the sleep apnoea business, that is pretty serious.

I don't know what sentence he should service, am happy to leave it to the judge.  Bearing in mind there was no intent to kill or maim, as a layman I would hazard a guess - three to five years, probably nearer five.

[Harrowby Hall]

Causing death by dangerous driving is the motoring equivalent of manslaughter and should attract an equivalent sentence. The fact that a police office was killed should not be material to the sentence.

The man - really only 28? - looks a mess. I think that a lifetime driving ban would be appropriate in addition to perhaps a 6 year prison sentence.

[Brownie]

Sounds about right.
Yes he does look a mess which is why the sleep apnoea thing was no surprise to me.

[floo]

I pass people almost daily using handheld mobiles whilst driving, which is of course illegal.

I think the penalty  should be a driving ban for at least a year, as well as a substantial fine. If one causes death by using a phone a ten year prison sentence should be imposed.

People who smoke and drive, drink their coffee/tea or eat meals when driving should receive the same penalty. A few months ago I saw someone holding a dish and spooning the contents into their mouth when driving early one morning!

[Sebastian Toe]

When I was driving on the motorway a few months back I saw another driver applying lipstick and eye shadow!

Such stupidity, it put me so much off doing my Times crossword that I dropped my pen into the footwell. 

[floo]

When I was driving on the motorway a few months back I saw another driver applying lipstick and eye shadow!

Such stupidity, it put me so much off doing my Times crossword that I dropped my pen into the footwell. 

I saw a woman applying her lipstick whilst driving by the local primary school!

[L.A.]

Obviously, this case is quite extreme and the driver has rightly been convicted, but the law is a bit of a 'blunt instrument' . How about a mother stuck in traffic desperately trying to phone a school or make alternative arrangements for her children to be picked-up? Even though she is static, technically she would still be breaking the law.

[floo]

Obviously, this case is quite extreme and the driver has rightly been convicted, but the law is a bit of a 'blunt instrument' . How about a mother stuck in traffic desperately trying to phone a school or make alternative arrangements for her children to be picked-up? Even though she is static, technically she would still be breaking the law.

But if she isn't actually driving that is rather different or should be.

[Hope]

Obviously, this case is quite extreme and the driver has rightly been convicted, but the law is a bit of a 'blunt instrument' . How about a mother stuck in traffic desperately trying to phone a school or make alternative arrangements for her children to be picked-up? Even though she is static, technically she would still be breaking the law.

That is a very good point, LA.  Out of interest, what is the actual wording of the law?  For instance, if you pull off the carriageway - perhaps into a lay-by - but keep the engine running but the gears in neutral whilst speaking on the phone, are you still breaking the law?

[Harrowby Hall]

That is a very good point, LA.  Out of interest, what is the actual wording of the law?  For instance, if you pull off the carriageway - perhaps into a lay-by - but keep the engine running but the gears in neutral whilst speaking on the phone, are you still breaking the law?

From the ROSPA website

The Definition of Driving

Under existing law a person may be regarded as "driving" a vehicle while the engine is running and the vehicle is stationary. The offence applies to all motor vehicles, including motorcycles, but not apply to pedal cycles.

[L.A.]

From the ROSPA website

The Definition of Driving

Under existing law a person may be regarded as "driving" a vehicle while the engine is running and the vehicle is stationary. The offence applies to all motor vehicles, including motorcycles, but not apply to pedal cycles.

I wonder how that would be interpreted if you have one of those cars that automatically switches off the engine when you stop for more than a few seconds?

. . . or indeed, an electric car?

[Harrowby Hall]

I wonder how that would be interpreted if you have one of those cars that automatically switches off the engine when you stop for more than a few seconds?

My guess would be that this would be a variation of "engine is running" - the possibility that the engine would restart would have to be excluded.

[Brownie]

Obviously, this case is quite extreme and the driver has rightly been convicted, but the law is a bit of a 'blunt instrument' . How about a mother stuck in traffic desperately trying to phone a school or make alternative arrangements for her children to be picked-up? Even though she is static, technically she would still be breaking the law.

The law was put in place to cover all eventualities and to stop people going too far.  In the above scenario, the woman would not be given a prison sentence, most likely she'd be told off or cautioned and wouldn't do it again.  There's no need nowadays with hands-free.

[Sebastian Toe]

I saw a woman applying her lipstick whilst driving by the local primary school!

I saw a man playing an accordion whilst driving past a shopping mall! 

[Brownie]

Hee hee, you are trying to outdo floo - no chance!
I have seen men picking their noses whilst driving - and scratching somewhere.....