The Sunday Assembly - Surprising BBC?

[Harrowby Hall]

BBC Radio 4 - Friday, 5 August, 11.00am   Available on BBC iPlayer

Swapping Psalms for Pop Songs

An interesting supplement to the Surprising BBC thread.

The programme examines the phenomenon of the "atheist church". It includes observations about the perception of atheism in the USA.

[Brownie]

Well there's an idea!  Did you iisten and, if so, what genre of pop music?  I might listen in if I fancy the music.

Atheism has religious aspects.
Definition of religion (one of the definitions), according to Dictionary.com:

6.something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:
to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Harrowby,

Taking the best bits of Church without God not an atheist Church, and there is those two words again "new" and "atheist".

New atheism cast a shadow over it and that shadow is now clearing

The gentleman was talking about celebrating a godless outlook, I wonder how many atheists on this forum celebrate a "godless outlook".

Linda Woodhead, Professor of sociology of religion,

Churches have become more and more strongly religious 

less and less hospitable.

David Robertson a Minister of the Free Church, atheists think that we are inherently good, where as he thinks we are inherently flawed

Anyway, thank you Harrowby, that was a very interesting link but I kind of got the feeling that it was slightly biased against this Sunday Assembly movement.

Gonnagle.

PS: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07m7z0r

A link to the radio programme.

[Hope]

Atheism has religious aspects.
Definition of religion (one of the definitions), according to Dictionary.com:

6.something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:
to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

Careful, Brownie.  The non-religious here are absolutely determined that what they believe is not a belief!

[Nearly Sane]

Well there's an idea!  Did you iisten and, if so, what genre of pop music?  I might listen in if I fancy the music.

Atheism has religious aspects.
Definition of religion (one of the definitions), according to Dictionary.com:

6.something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:
to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

I believe in and follow atheism to the same extent as aunicornism. Is my aunicornism a religion?

Also since I have never seen a logically consistent or meaningful definition of God, is my ahyoooottfulism a religion?

[Hope]

Listening to the programme, its interesting how similar many of the comments by those who have come with complex issues are to those who come to churches with comparable issues.

[Brownie]

Thanks for that link Gonnagle.

I've listened to just over half and will listen to the rest a bit later.
Very interesting indeed!

The terms, "Atheist church", is a bit ambiguous but never mind, it's not always easy to find the right words to describe something relatively new.

It reminded me of 'Happy clappy' church, not my bag but each to their own.  Spiritually uplifting  .  Very concerned with community.  It all seems quite positive if you like the idea of belonging to a group and joining in which isn't for all of us but fills a gap for many.

No doubt the Sunday Assembly will evolve and diverge. 

The bit of the Nashville Assembly played was doing a Stones number, can't be bad!

NS - you mean unicorns don't exist   I've seen 'em ontelly.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Hope,

Old Bluehillside will blow his top with this radio programme, it talks about how this generation should indoctrinate the next generation into their Church

Gonnagle.

[Maeght]

Careful, Brownie.  The non-religious here are absolutely determined that what they believe is not a belief!

Unsurprisingly - since not believing in God isn't a belief.

[wigginhall]

I think that there is a spectrum about non-belief.   There are atheists who firmly believe that there is no God or in fact, gods.   Sometimes called gnostic atheism, I think.   However, there seem to be a ton of atheists who are agnostic atheists, that is, they don't claim to know about God, but lack a belief therein.   

This is like not collecting stamps, isn't it?  This is not a form of collecting.   

But some Christians want to portray atheism as a belief, as then there is a burden of proof for the atheists.

[BeRational]

I think that there is a spectrum about non-belief.   There are atheists who firmly believe that there is no God or in fact, gods.   Sometimes called gnostic atheism, I think.   However, there seem to be a ton of atheists who are agnostic atheists, that is, they don't claim to know about God, but lack a belief therein.   

This is like not collecting stamps, isn't it?  This is not a form of collecting.   

But some Christians want to portray atheism as a belief, as then there is a burden of proof for the atheists.

Exactly right!

I am an agnostic atheist, and I suspect most atheists on here are.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Gonners,

Old Bluehillside will blow his top with this radio programme, it talks about how this generation should indoctrinate the next generation into their Church

Can't listen just now - there's a test match on!

Does it really though? Seems like an odd thing to say given that most non-religious I'd have thought would say that "indoctrinating" children into anything is a bad idea. 

[bluehillside Retd.]

Hope,

Careful, Brownie.  The non-religious here are absolutely determined that what they believe is not a belief!

A-theism is a function of what people don't believe, not what they do believe.

How many times does this have to be explained to you before it sinks in?

[L.A.]

Hope,

A-theism is a function of what people don't believe, not what they do believe.

How many times does this have to be explained to you before it sinks in?

I suppose technically that is true, but kind of 'Militant Atheism' that is spearheaded by the likes of Dawkins goes much further. In fact I would say that it has become a campaign to destroy religion.

[Nearly Sane]

I suppose technically that is true, but kind of 'Militant Atheism' that is spearheaded by the likes of Dawkins goes much further. In fact I would say that it has become a campaign to destroy religion.

if by technically, you mean actually, fine.

The second is questionable,  and may just mean outspoken


The third is antitheism

[L.A.]

if by technically, you mean actually, fine.

The second is questionable,  and may just mean outspoken


The third is antitheism

I mean that the definition of atheism (oxfordonline) is:

"Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods."

Fine that confirms your view.

However, mention atheism and everyone thinks of Dawkins, look around and the kind of thing that comes-up is:

http://www.learnoutloud.com/Free-Audio-Video/Science/Biology/Richard-Dawkins-on-Militant-Atheism/30876


I'm not saying that he is right or wrong but there is no denying he has an agenda that goes way beyond simple non-belief .

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Apparently the assembly movement experienced a bit of a schism in the US giving rise to continuing Assemblies which welcome all and Cabarets which are vehemently antitheist and really only welcome the converted antitheist.

[Nearly Sane]

I mean that the definition of atheism (oxfordonline) is:

"Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods."

Fine that confirms your view.

However, mention atheism and everyone thinks of Dawkins, look around and the kind of thing that comes-up is:

http://www.learnoutloud.com/Free-Audio-Video/Science/Biology/Richard-Dawkins-on-Militant-Atheism/30876


I'm not saying that he is right or wrong but there is no denying he has an agenda that goes way beyond simple non-belief .

Yep. The definition confirms my view. Attaching anything beyond that to me would be incorrect.

[L.A.]

Yep. The definition confirms my view. Attaching anything beyond that to me would be incorrect.

I would say that a word has many associations that go beyond it's simple dictionary definition. For example, try putting atheism into a Thesaurus and you might get:

nihilism, disbelief, doubt, freethinking, godlessness, heresy, iconoclasm, impiety, infidelity, irreligion, irreverence, paganism, skepticism, unbelief, nonbelief

Put the word in Google and references to New Atheism (or Militant Atheism) will be sure to come up.

[bluehillside Retd.]

L.A.,

I suppose technically that is true, but kind of 'Militant Atheism' that is spearheaded by the likes of Dawkins goes much further. In fact I would say that it has become a campaign to destroy religion.

Not really, for the reasons NS has explained already.

Additionally though, "militant" atheism is a misnomer for the most part used by theists to spook the horses. Dawkins et al are for the largely characterised by their politeness in my experience, and there's nothing "militant" about them that I can see. What they actually object to is religions arrogating rights and privileges to themselves, in response to which their proponents tend to shout "militant". 

RD in particular has said that he wouldn't be without the cultural heritage of Christianity. What he objects to though - as do I - is the habit of some of its clerics to overreach in the public square.   

[bluehillside Retd.]

L.A.,

I would say that a word has many associations that go beyond it's simple dictionary definition. For example, try putting atheism into a Thesaurus and you might get:...

But a thesaurus is for associated terms, not for definitions.

[Nearly Sane]

I would say that a word has many associations that go beyond it's simple dictionary definition. For example, try putting atheism into a Thesaurus and you might get:

nihilism, disbelief, doubt, freethinking, godlessness, heresy, iconoclasm, impiety, infidelity, irreligion, irreverence, paganism, skepticism, unbelief, nonbelief

Put the word in Google and references to New Atheism (or Militant Atheism) will be sure to come up.

That's nice but doesn't apply to me so you have to deal with the actual. I can put religion in google and find IS, so you think my sainted old mother burns people?

[L.A.]

L.A.,

But a thesaurus is for associated terms, not for definitions.

They are concepts that are associated with that word and therefore may give a fuller understanding.

[L.A.]

That's nice but doesn't apply to me so you have to deal with the actual. I can put religion in google and find IS, so you think my sainted old mother burns people?

I think it might be useful to a great many people to understand that religion is not monolithic and that religions can be interpreted in vastly different ways by different people.

[Nearly Sane]

I think it might be useful to a great many people to understand that religion is not monolithic and that religions can be interpreted in vastly different ways by different people.

so why were you taking a position that was against that, and that for not believing?