Should this not have happened long ago?

[Owlswing]

Police have ended the forensic investigation into Madeline McCann's disappearance.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/forensic-investigation-into-madeleine-mccann-1489408027074614.html

Now I just know that I am about to become the most villified person on this forum, but, frankly, in this instance, I don't give a shit!

Her parents took their kids on holiday with them and then left them unattended while they went out for a meal, yet they have consistently denied any resposibility for her disappearance/abduction and, in the process of publicising their demands for ever more pointless police action to find her - Moderator: content removed.

Why were they never charged with child neglect? Why instead were they feted by the press for their weepy weepy pleas for OTHER people to find their child that they left alone.

[jeremyp]

It was a high price for Madeleine to pay for her parents' mistake. The investigation was as much for her as for them.

If every parent who did something like what the McCanns did was put in prison, I doubt if there would be many parents who have not done gaol time. They have already been punished by the loss of their daughter. It wouldn't achieve anything to do anything else to them.

[Bubbles]

Police have ended the forensic investigation into Madeline McCann's disappearance.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/forensic-investigation-into-madeleine-mccann-1489408027074614.html

Now I just know that I am about to become the most villified person on this forum, but, frankly, in this instance, I don't give a shit!

Her parents took their kids on holiday with them and then left them unattended while they went out for a meal, yet they have consistently denied any resposibility for her disappearance/abduction and, in the process of publicising their demands for ever more pointless police action to find her - Moderator: quoted content removed.

Why were they never charged with child neglect? Why instead were they feted by the press for their weepy weepy pleas for OTHER people to find their child that they left alone.

No parents are perfect.

They left them for a very short period of time.

Some holiday resorts offer baby listening services so parents can pop,down to the bar.

Not that I would have used it, but sometimes things go wrong.

It must have been incredibly painful for them.

People are always ready to point the finger and be holier than thou.

All you can do in such circumstances is let the police get on with it.

I think the mcCanns searched high and low for their daughter, themselves they did't just leave it to other people.

I think having the experience of your child going missing while your back is turned is going to stay with you for the rest of your life.

I have no desire to increase their woes by charging them with neglect because like many parents, they are just human and fallible.


No matter how good a parent we consider ourselves, there is always room for a misjudgement at the wrong time.

[Bubbles]

I remember reading about some parents who had never let their child out of sight and when he turned 11 the mum thought she would allow her son to walk to the local shop for the first time,  because it didn't involve crossing any roads or anything.

The boy didn't come back, because he met the wrong person on the way. Even though he knew not to speak to strangers.

The police worry more about children that are not " streetwise" and unfortunately no matter how hard you try, it's possible to make the wrong choice.

Sometimes, it's not choice so much as chance.

I expect that mother will beat herself up every day, for allowing him to walk the short distance to the local shop.   

If it goes wrong, parents are always blamed.

 

[floo]

The McCanns were very negligent parents to have left their very young children in an apartment on their own, that is a FACT.

[Brownie]

My sympathies are with Madeline, her parents and family - to a lesser extent, to the people who were holidaying with them because, let's face it, it could easily have been one of their children who was taken while the adults were eating and the parents took turns in checking on the kids.

Being judgemental is not helpful in this instance, the McCanns have been sufficiently vilified.  I don't know how they will ever get over it.

It's perfectly normal for the police to close a case after so long but that doesn't mean they will never re-open it if some new evidence comes to light.  Though I believe Madeline is dead it would give the parents a measure of closure if they knew for certain.  In the meantime they have to get on with their lives and do the best for their two other children. Members of the public who were not there and, frankly, don't really know or care what it was like at the time, continually having a go at them, is not doing any good but it may make them feel self righteous.

[jeremyp]

The McCanns were very negligent parents to have left their very young children in an apartment on their own, that is a FACT.

Are there any parents who can honestly say they have never done anything similar?

[Bubbles]

The McCanns were very negligent parents to have left their very young children in an apartment on their own, that is a FACT.

No Floo, it's not a fact!

It's your opinion on it.

[Owlswing]

I said that I would be vilified and I am being.

As I have said I don't give a shit!

Paragraph withdrawn

If you have children you make sacrifices - like going out in the piss at night with your friends and leaving your children on their own! Unguarded!

For only a short time? Others here have stated that it only takes seconds to abduct a child - thus any time measured in more than seconds is too long to leave your children unguarded.

To Hell with the parents feelings - I suggest that you instead try to imagine what the child, Madeline, went through! I would suggest for a child as young as she was it was far far worse than what her parents went or are going through and serve them right as far as I am concerned.

I am not suggesting that they be charged with anything now - it should have been done within seconds of the fact that they had, effectively, abandoned their child had become known to the police - Portugese or British!

They are Catholic - what was their God thinking when their child was abducted?

I hope that he was thinking "I'll teach you to leave your kids alone!"


Edited for typo's made because I am typing in anger not only at the McCanns but at those who now seek to defend them andf their actions!

[bluehillside Retd.]

Floo,

The McCanns were very negligent parents to have left their very young children in an apartment on their own, that is a FACT.

No, it's your opinion on the matter.

Can you honestly say that you never turned your back on your children even for a short time when they were young? The only difference between you (and me for that matter) and the McCanns is dumb luck. 

[jeremyp]

I said that I would be vilified and I am being.

Who has vilified you on this thread? I see several posts disagreeing with you but no vilification.

They have profited hugely from her disappearance, had an audience with the Pope - they left the child in a foreign land,they put theior pleasure before the safety of their child!

I'm sure that an audience with the Pope makes up for the loss of their daughter. Oh, wait, no it doesn't.

If you have children you make sacrifices - like going out in the piss at night with your friends and leaving your children on their own! Unguarded!

They weren't out on the piss. They were eating in a restaurant next door to the apartment complex.

For only a short time? Others here have stated that it only takes seconds to abduct a child - thus any time measured in more than seconds is too long to leave your children unguarded.

Have you ever been a parent?

Again, nobody is vilifying you, just disagreeing.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Owls,

Moderator: quoted content removed..

The McCanns behaved no differently from countless other loving parents. The only difference is, they were unlucky.

[Owlswing]

Have you ever been a parent?

Three times! And my children were never left alone until they were considerably older than Madeline!

Parental sacrifices even at a restaurant next-door where the kids were out of sight and, IMO, out of mind!

[jeremyp]

Three times! And my children were never left alone until they were considerably older than Madeline!

So there was never a moment when they were out of your sight. I find that incredible to believe.

Parental sacrifices even at a restaurant next-door where the kids were out of sight and, IMO, out of mind!

They weren't out of mind. The parents were going back and checking on the children every 20 to 30 minutes.

[Enki]

Owlswing,

Why do you take the fact that some posters disagree with you as evidence that they are vilifying you?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Owls,

No accounting has ever been made of the many tens of thousands (if not more) that were donated to the various funds that were created after the abduction!

But your statement was that they - ie, the McCanns - made a "fortune" out of it. Whether or not "no accounting" was made of the "various funds" is a different matter (though it seems unlikely I'd have thought). Your accusation is that the McCanns themselves made a fortune.

Again, what's your evidence for this?

[Bubbles]

I said that I would be vilified and I am being.

As I have said I don't give a shit!

Moderator: quoted content removed.

If you have children you make sacrifices - like going out in the piss at night with your friends and leaving your children on their own! Unguarded!

For only a short time? Others here have stated that it only takes seconds to abduct a child - thus any time measured in more than seconds is too long to leave your children unguarded.

To Hell with the parents feelings - I suggest that you instead try to imagine what the child, Madeline, went through! I would suggest for a child as young as she was it was far far worse than what her parents went or are going through and serve them right as far as I am concerned.

I am not suggesting that they be charged with anything now - it should have been done within seconds of the fact that they had, effectively, abandoned their child had become known to the police - Portugese or British!

Threy are Catholic - what was their God thinking when their child was abducted?

I hope that he was thinking "I'll teach you to leave your kids alone!"


Edited for typo's made because I am typing in anger not only at the McCanns but at those who now seek to defend them andf their actions!

I don't think you are being vilified, just that people are discussing it, as you wanted them too.


I don't think people are defending their actions so much as some people realise how easily things can go wrong.

A parent can leave a window open and a child can be snatched.

I think most of us realise we are only human.

You can look away on a crowded beach and you small child runs off ( or while shopping) how many of us have seen a crying child looking for parents?

It happens often enough that events often have a place for parents to go to collect lost children.

Fortunately 99.99% of children are found safe and well, but most parents know that feeling of panic that can happen because of a distraction.

Sometimes, people are unlucky.

Something bad happens.

The parents of those children who something bad happens to, are no worse than all those parents who breathe a sigh of relief when they are reunited with their children.

So much is just chance.

I'm not recommending leaving children in apartments on their own, but thousands of parents let hotels listen with a babysitting service while they eat their meal downstairs. ( if they were next door in a restaurant, checking every 30 minutes or so, then they are not so very different, really. )

All can go very wrong, if you are unlucky.

 

[Brownie]

First time I've ever heard that the McCanns have made a lot of money for themselves out of Madeline's disappearance  .  Where did that come from?  It's quite slanderous.  The McCanns have enough to cope with without that accusation.

Saw your post Rose;  yes!

[Bubbles]

Three times! And my children were never left alone until they were considerably older than Madeline!

Parental sacrifices even at a restaurant next-door where the kids were out of sight and, IMO, out of mind!

Didn't they have their own bedrooms then?

[Owlswing]

Didn't they have their own bedrooms then?

Oh yes. Upstairs - with the large windows welded shutand windows that were too small for either a adult or a child to get through with a ventilator fitted!

We took all the precautions we could to the samllest detailthat we coi=uld envisage - our children were out on reins and then with a hand held. If children were not allowed ito any shop only one of us went in.

Yes, it was bloody annoying at times but it was worth it!

Oh and they all attended self-fdefence classes from age four! Not martial arts classes - self-defence classes!


As to the money, Brownie, just where was the money spent? Have you ever seen anything to show where it went? And, I seem to remember, from some radio programme a few months ago, there are still monies being paid into the various collections in her (Madeline's) name.

I have said all I intend to say on this, as I say, not one word of sympathy for the child! That is what sickens me to my stomach!

[Brownie]

That's a point Rose.  Also, playing in the garden - there have been cases of children snatched from their own back gardens.  I remember once reading of a case of an intruder coming into a garden and molesting or abducting a child who was in a tent with a friend, also someone staying at a b&b who sneaked into the owners' private rooms, found their way into the child's bedroom..... etc.  I daresay all the parents concerned in those stories would do something different if they had their time over again.

Here are details of the Madeline fund, doesn't look as though anyone is lining their pockets.  Why are people so flipping suspicious and resentful? :
http://www.findmadeleine.com/about_us/madeleines-fund.html

[floo]

No Floo, it's not a fact!

It's your opinion on it.

It is a fact they left their young children (4 years and under) in an apartment on their own, whilst they were wining and dining elsewhere! I reckon they would have been prosecuted if that had happened in the UK. What parents in their right mind would leave such young children by themselves?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Owls,

Oh yes. Upstairs - with the large windows welded shutand windows that were too small for either a adult or a child to get through with a ventilator fitted!

We took all the precautions we could to the samllest detailthat we coi=uld envisage - our children were out on reins and then with a hand held. If children were not allowed ito any shop only one of us went in.

Yes, it was bloody annoying at times but it was worth it!

Oh and they all attended self-fdefence classes from age four! Not martial arts classes - self-defence classes!

And you have no reason to suppose that the McCann's were any less careful with their children - maybe even more so. All parents though find their backs turned from time-to-time, you included. Imagine (heaven forbid) that a child had been taken from you and someone said, "bloody Owlswing - fancy talking to the girl at the checkout counter like that in Tesco. It's all his fault little Chardonnay was snatched". Would you apply the same standard you apply to the McCanns and agree with them, or instead argue that you were a careful parent 99% of the time who was just very unlucky?   

As to the money, Brownie, just where was the money spent? Have you ever seen anything to show where it went? And, I seem to remember, from some radio programme a few months ago, there are still monies being paid into the various collections in her (Madeline's) name.

That's pretty disgraceful. That you personally happen not to know where the money was spent (why not just look it up by the way?) as the basis of your accusation that the McCanns themselves made their fortune out of it is contemptible.

You should be ashamed of yourself or that.

I have said all I intend to say on this, as I say, not one word of sympathy for the child! That is what sickens me to my stomach!

There's plenty of sympathy for the child, but also for her parents. As it was you OP though with no mention of sympathy for Madeleine, the discussion has responded to that.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Floo,

It is a fact they left their young children (4 years and under) in an apartment on their own, whilst they were wining and dining elsewhere! I reckon they would have been prosecuted if that had happened in the UK. What parents in their right mind would leave such young children by themselves?

But you claimed that their supposed negligence was a "FACT". It wasn't - that's just your opinion on the matter.

From memory they and others in the group put their children to bed, and various parents took it in turn to check on them. Many children have been left unattended in similar circumstances with no harm coming to them, and some children have been more carefully observed and been snatched in a brief moment of distraction nonetheless.

The McCanns were unlucky, and have suffered horribly as the result. Why vilify them for it? 

[Bubbles]

Oh yes. Upstairs - with the large windows welded shutand windows that were too small for either a adult or a child to get through with a ventilator fitted!

We took all the precautions we could to the samllest detailthat we coi=uld envisage - our children were out on reins and then with a hand held. If children were not allowed ito any shop only one of us went in.

Yes, it was bloody annoying at times but it was worth it!

Oh and they all attended self-fdefence classes from age four! Not martial arts classes - self-defence classes!


As to the money, Brownie, just where was the money spent? Have you ever seen anything to show where it went? And, I seem to remember, from some radio programme a few months ago, there are still monies being paid into the various collections in her (Madeline's) name.

I have said all I intend to say on this, as I say, not one word of sympathy for the child! That is what sickens me to my stomach!

Owlswing

The trouble is, as you make efforts to prevent one threat happening to children you increase the dangers of another one.

For example, did you never consider you might need those windows functional,  in case of fire?

Because you overreacted to the fear of someone being able to get in, you exposed them to another risk entirely.

Being a parent, and getting it right isn't as easy as some people think.

Can you see, if your children had died in a house fire, and firemen couldn't get in because you had welded the windows shut, you yourself could have been accused of being a bad parent?

The risk of a fire is greater than a child being carried off through a window.


As parents we sometimes have to balance our fears on probability.

Sometimes parents get it wrong.

The MCanns got in wrong in this instance. Had luck not been in your favour, you too could have got it wrong.

You ran the risk of getting it wrong by welding the Windows shut.

Thank god you never got the bad luck some other parents get.

The McCanns were very unlucky that someone carried off Madelaine.

You could have been just as unlucky had you had a house fire and the firemen needed to get through a window you welded shut.

We all have our particular fears when it comes to our children, they make us make bad decisions or sometimes not see hidden dangers.

The McCanns obviously didn't see the unlikely event of someone taking their children, just like you don't see the dangers of welding Windows shut.

You are not so very different from the McCanns, Owlswing.

You just perceive the dangers as being different.

In all honesty Owlswing, which is most common?

A house fire? Or someone taking your child through their bedroom window?

Understanding that parents can make choices based on their perception of danger to their children , and get it wrong helps you understand something about other Parents.

Including the Mcanns.

Fortunately you don't have to go through life, known as the father who welded the children's windows shut so the fire brigade couldn't get in.

All it takes is some bad luck, and a moments misjudgment of the dangers.