Should this not have happened long ago?

[floo]

Of course they were negligent as they left their young children unattended, with no adult on the premises. We don't know what happened to their daughter, and of course it is possible that they were responsible for her disappearance.

I feel very sorry for their two other children who have had to live their young lives in the shadow of the mystery surrounding their sister.

[Brownie]

What the McCanns did was no more than many do, sit in the garden in summer with friends whilst their children are upstairs, asleep (if they have children who sleep).

Anyone can "Tut tut" and say, "I would never have done....", but have probably done or not done other things.  I know I said it already but there are some who enjoy being angrily self righteous which achieves absolutely nothing.  As for suggesting the McCanns were responsible for their child's abduction - why??  It beggars belief how peoples' minds work, are they jealous of the McCanns in some way?  There's certainly a lot of personal resentment which has nothing to do with sympathy for little Madeline, it has a life of its own.

As to the implication that the McCanns have made money for themselves out of this tragedy, that is beneath contempt.  If anyone is unsure where the fund money has been spent, they only have to make enquiries.

The same sort of vitriol poured out on the McCanns  apparently often happens in America with high profile cases of child abduction where parents keep the child in the public eye and raise money to continue searching.   One particular case springs to mind, that of a fourteen year old girl called Elizabeth Smart who was kidnapped from the bedroom she shared with her sister.  Apparently the abductor entered by a route that was usually locked, on this occasion the parents hadn't secured it.  One can only imagine the guilt they felt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Smart

There is a quite harrowing but very good book and a film about her ordeal.

The Smarts came in for endless, vicious criticism from the public.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Floo,

Of course they were negligent as they left their young children unattended, with no adult on the premises. We don't know what happened to their daughter, and of course it is possible that they were responsible for her disappearance.

I feel very sorry for their two other children who have had to live their young lives in the shadow of the mystery surrounding their sister.

There were adults adjacent to the premises who looked in on them regularly. "Negligence" is a value judgement, not a "FACT".

The only person "responsible" was the person who took her. At worst you might accuse the McCanns of contributory negligence, but that's a charge after the fact. Had you looked away from your child for a brief time and she'd been taken, would you have been "responsible" for that too?

[floo]

The McCanns weren't on the premises, they were in a restaurant, that is also a fact. It might have been nearby, but they weren't near enough to hear their kids if they were in distress, so they were negligent. 

[L.A.]

Of course they were negligent as they left their young children unattended, with no adult on the premises. We don't know what happened to their daughter, and of course it is possible that they were responsible for her disappearance.

I feel very sorry for their two other children who have had to live their young lives in the shadow of the mystery surrounding their sister.

Floo,

We used to take our children abroad to these kinds of complex's in Portugal and Spain and they were generally regarded as 'safe'. I know many offered an 'official' baby-sitting service - but when you looked into it, it actually consisted of nothing more than someone checking the child every hour or so - pretty much what the McCanns had been doing themselves.

The McCanns were incredibly unlucky and have suffered tremendously for their mistake, but it's a mistake that countless thousands must have made without realising it.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Just to note that over-protecting children can have unintended consequences too. If they're brought up to think that the world is a risk-free place, loving parents can actually do more harm than good in the longer run when they're unable to respond appropriately to the risk of bad things happening.

And the problem with exposing children to controlled risk is that sometimes that risk event will happen - that's what "risk" means. That's why, albeit with hearts in mouths, sometimes you just have to let little Timmy climb that tree to find out for himself where the boundaries of safety are.

Would the Owls and Floos of this world be just as condemnatory when once in a blue moon a little Timmy falls out of the tree and injures himself?

Would those parents be "negligent", "responsible" etc in their views?   

[bluehillside Retd.]

Floo,

The McCanns weren't on the premises, they were in a restaurant, that is also a fact. It might have been nearby, but they weren't near enough to hear their kids if they were in distress, so they were negligent.

Only with the benefit of hindsight. Statistically the children were more at risk from the journey to the resort - would the McCanns have been negligent in your opinion if one of them had been killed in a car crash, or do you reserve your judgementalism for just one type if risk event?

How about you? What if you'd chatted to your neighbour in the street for a few minutes and while your back was turned one of your children had been taken? Would you have been "responsible", "negligent" etc too? 

[floo]

They left their young children on their own whilst they were away from the apartment, that is negligence. I have no idea why people are making excuses for a couple who should have known better!

Anyway I have no more to say on the topic.

[jeremyp]

it is possible that they were responsible for her disappearance.

That was investigated by the Portuguese Police with no evidence being found to incriminate them. It was also the subject of a libel case that the McCanns won.

It's the reasonable conclusion that they were not responsible for Madeleine's disappearance. I think it would reflect better on you if you didn't bring this up.

[Nearly Sane]

I had excellent parents who loved me. And yet at the age of two I was left for long enough to paint most of a floor, painting myself into a corner literally, and then painting myself.


At the same age I was left in the car while my parents and siblings got an ice cream, which was long enough for me to let the hand break off allowing the car to start moving to the dick.(dock but predictive text left in as too good)

At four, the Elim Pentecostal church kidnapped me with the promise of cake and singing, while I was playing outside.


I wouldn't have done what the McCanns did but the tragedy is caused by the person who took the child. Punishing them is almost laughable given their daily punishment.

[jeremyp]

I have no idea why people are making excuses for a couple who should have known better!

Because every parent does similar things. Are you claiming that you never let your children out of your sight for half an hour? If so, I don't believe you.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Floo,

They left their young children on their own whilst they were away from the apartment, that is negligence. I have no idea why people are making excuses for a couple who should have known better!

And in the scenario I described you'd have left your young child unattended while you chatted to your neighbour so that too would (according to you) have been negligence. Why then would anyone have made "excuses" for your behaviour when you "should have known better"?

The only difference between you (and me) and the McCanns was luck. Do you not think that they've suffered enough without people like you weighing in to make them feel even worse? 

Anyway I have no more to say on the topic.

Probably just as well.

[Brownie]

Agree with all the last posts (blue, jeremy, NS). I typed another post and then saw that there had been umpteen in the interim which I read and decided that you said it better than I would have done.

Very sad business.

[Bubbles]

I had excellent parents who loved me. And yet at the age of two I was left for long enough to paint most of a floor, painting myself into a corner literally, and then painting myself.


At the same age I was left in the car while my parents and siblings got an ice cream, which was long enough for me to let the hand break off allowing the car to start moving to the dick.

At four, the Elim Pentecostal church kidnapped me with the promise of cake and singing, while I was playing outside.


I wouldn't have done what the McCanns did but the tragedy is caused by the person who took the child. Punishing them is almost laughable given their daily punishment.

LOL

Did the Elim Pentecostal church know what it was letting itself in for ? 

You sounded like hardwork for your poor mum

It's true though, when children go quiet, worry.

My two redecorated the hall with crayons, stripped the wallpaper off a bedroom wall, and threw muddy water and mud at the outside wall of the bungalow when the estate agent and potential buyer was about to arrive.

On another occasion pushed toilet rolls into the upstairs toilet of a friends house, and repeatedly pulled the flush, till we noticed water dripping.

Kids!

 

[Nearly Sane]

LOL

Did the Elim Pentecostal church know what it was letting itself in for ? 

You sounded like hardwork for your poor mum

It's true though, when children go quiet, worry.

My two redecorated the hall with crayons, stripped the wallpaper off a bedroom wall, and threw muddy water and mud at the outside wall of the bungalow when the estate agent and potential buyer was about to arrive.

On another occasion pushed toilet rolls into the upstairs toilet of a friends house, and repeatedly pulled the flush, till we noticed water dripping.

Kids!

 

There is a passing irony that I ran away at 4 to join a church.


Their songs were jollier than I was used to in church - no 'By The Blood That Flowed From Thee In Thy Bitter Agony'

I think I was quite disappointed by the cake though.

[Udayana]

Police have ended the forensic investigation into Madeline McCann's disappearance.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/forensic-investigation-into-madeleine-mccann-1489408027074614.html

Now I just know that I am about to become the most villified person on this forum, but, frankly, in this instance, I don't give a shit!

Her parents took their kids on holiday with them and then left them unattended while they went out for a meal, yet they have consistently denied any resposibility for her disappearance/abduction and, in the process of publicising their demands for ever more pointless police action to find her - Moderator: quoted content removed.

Why were they never charged with child neglect? Why instead were they feted by the press for their weepy weepy pleas for OTHER people to find their child that they left alone.

So, having lost a child through stupidity, negligence or accident whatever, would you not utilize every accessible resource to try to find her again? How do you suggest they should have gone about trying to find her?
 

[Owlswing]

Owls,

And your evidence for this statement is what exactly?

The McCanns behaved no differently from countless other loving parents. The only difference is, they were unlucky.

I submit the followig:

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id405.html

This report on the finances of the McCann fund shows that there were, and, as far as I can find out, still are serious questions about the financial matters relating to the fund.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Owls,

I submit the followig:

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id405.html

This report on the finances of the McCann fund shows that there were, and, as far as I can find out, still are serious questions about the financial matters relating to the fund.

It's a long document. As I assume that you read it prior to linking to it, could you point me to the part that says that the McCanns "made a fortune" from it please, which was your accusation.

Thanks.

[Brownie]

That was what I was wondering.  The fund may have been managed unwisely for all I know (they often are), that report was from 2012 which is quite a while ago so there needs to be something more up date, however where is the evidence that the McCanns personally made a fortune out of it?  That is a pretty vile accusation and the only reason I can think of that anyone would think, let alone say, such a thing without proof, is that they dislike/resent the McCanns.  From what we've seen and read of them, the McCanns seem to be fairly 'ordinary people', they don't 'present' or project themselves.  Do others know something dark and criminal about them that the rest of them don't?

 

[Gordon]

Moderator:

I'll leave the last three posts preceding this one alone, in that they are referring to a Owlswing's recently posted link where the contents of this can, of course, be discussed.

However, there are comments earlier in this thread that appear to be overt and unsupported accusations of illegality and these (and any quotes of them) I am going to edit out.

[Bubbles]

One of the criticisms I have read of the funds is that they were used to fund their mortgage.

This doesn't shock me, because they can't work to pay their mortgage while going back to Portugal to hunt for their daughter and keep abreast of latest developments.

This is not, in my opinion a misappropriation of funds, they needed that support at that time.

It's not unreasonable, IMO.

Plus they are not financial experts therefore they would have used funds as needed.

If you are going to support parents, then it might involve in supporting all sorts of things including babysitting and looking after the other children.

Those parents used the funds to keep them afloat as a family and so that they could pursue what happened to their daughter.

So many family members are effected by a tragedy like this.

 

[Sebastian Toe]

Anyway I have no more to say on the topic.

TFFT

[Brownie]

That's a good post Rose.  People seem to forget that the couple are ordinary people who need to earn a crust, Kate had only worked a few sessions as a locum GP before the abduction happened and didn't go back to it (she might have done so by now), Gerry took a lot of time off, unpaid leave, from his consultant job so they had no income while they were going to and from Portugal. 

[Owlswing]

Owls,

It's a long document. As I assume that you read it prior to linking to it, could you point me to the part that says that the McCanns "made a fortune" from it please, which was your accusation.

Thanks.

There is evidence that the finaces were NOT strictly above bpard and logical and the accounts are not completely in line with what is considered to be proper.

And, If you bothered to lok you will find that I have withdrawn ther offending paragraph!

It was stated as my opinion after 50 years working in accounts - thus I withdrew it and added the link which clearly states the inconsistancies in the operation of the fund and its acconts.

My main point was and is that these people have been guilty, by my standards, of serious neglect and yet people are still willing to see them as the victims instead of their daughter when the only thing of which they are victims is their own stupidity. It has been stated on this thread that it only takes seconds for a child to 'disappear', they only checked on their children once every half an hour - just how many seconds is that?

I see them on TV etc weepily telling the world how bad they feel - a high price to pay for a meal out while on holiday! 'Find her! 'Find her!' and expect others to find their child for them, a child they lost through their selfishness and stupidity!

I have, as above, withdrawn my comment about personal profit but I stand by my belief that, ultimately THEY and ONLY THEY are resposcible for Madeline's disappearance and nothing, absolutely nothing, will change my opinion on that score.   

[Jack Knave]

I agree. It all looked very odd to me from day one and the appeals seem to be more about their egos than Madeleine. They never looked sad or distraught by her kidnap.