Should this not have happened long ago?

[Harrowby Hall]

From the age of six I used to walk to and from school by myself. On Tuesdays and Thursdays it was my responsibility to pick up my four year old brother from playgroup on my way home.

Times have changed.

At the age of three, I would be told to go out into the street and play. We lived in Hyson Green, in Nottingham, Not far (perhaps a quarter of a mile) from our house was the River Leen and on a day in 1945 I decided to go and explore. I do not have any recollection of this but, apparently, I fell into the river and walked home soaking wet. It was the day my brother was born.

When I was five I started school. To get there I had to cross Radford Road and I think my mother took me to school in the morning, but it was not long before I was expected to find my own way home. I have a memory of running across Radford Road in front of a trolley bus.

A year later, we had moved to Grantham. Again I would be told to "go out and play". Nobody came to see where I was. I could be in the fields or up Halls Hill. I would be scolded if I was late for tea - even though I had no way of knowing what the time was. At eight I was walking into town and going to the park by myself, crossing busy roads. It was usual.

How times have changed.

I think that the McCanns need compassion not scorn.

[Brownie]

Yes they do.  However ten years ago when the incident in question happened, people were far more careful with their children than twenty, thirty, fifty years ago.  In the last ten years, since Madeline McCann was kidnapped, I've noticed people have gone further and are ten times more careful, especially with small children.  Very understandable.

[BeRational]

At the age of three, I would be told to go out into the street and play. We lived in Hyson Green, in Nottingham, Not far (perhaps a quarter of a mile) from our house was the River Leen and on a day in 1945 I decided to go and explore. I do not have any recollection of this but, apparently, I fell into the river and walked home soaking wet. It was the day my brother was born.

When I was five I started school. To get there I had to cross Radford Road and I think my mother took me to school in the morning, but it was not long before I was expected to find my own way home. I have a memory of running across Radford Road in front of a trolley bus.

A year later, we had moved to Grantham. Again I would be told to "go out and play". Nobody came to see where I was. I could be in the fields or up Halls Hill. I would be scolded if I was late for tea - even though I had no way of knowing what the time was. At eight I was walking into town and going to the park by myself, crossing busy roads. It was usual.

How times have changed.

I think that the McCanns need compassion not scorn.

I too went out to play, and we would be out all day roaming quite a lot over the pit hill (slag piles) that were huge, and impervious to damage. We of course did what all normal boys did at the time, we made weedkiller bombs to blow stuff up.

Great fun, and yes a little bit dangerous but great fun!

[L.A.]

I too went out to play, and we would be out all day roaming quite a lot over the pit hill (slag piles) that were huge, and impervious to damage. We of course did what all normal boys did at the time, we made weedkiller bombs to blow stuff up.

Great fun, and yes a little bit dangerous but great fun!

Very similar for me, but I always liked to make weedkiller rockets. They generally exploded at some stage but sometimes managed to get airborne first.

[BeRational]

Very similar for me, but I always liked to make weedkiller rockets. They generally exploded at some stage but sometimes managed to get airborne first.

Exactly my situation. We were really rocket scientists, but found that they blew up more often than flew.
In the end, we just accepted we were good at bombs (cos they are really easy).

[bluehillside Retd.]

The point here for those who accuse the McCanns of negligence, stupidity etc is that they cannot understand what these words mean. To be negligent for example entails being careless, remiss, failing to take proper care etc. What the McCanns did though based on the information available to them at the time was to be careful, not remiss, to take proper care. The incidence of someone breaking in to a locked room and snatching a child was as close to zero as makes no difference, and moreover they ensured that regular checks were made.

The only way to make a charge of negligence is to look after the vanishingly rare event and to conclude that they should have guarded against it nonetheless. There was a horrible case a while back of children on holiday dying because a boiler was wrongly installed and carbon monoxide entered their room. Were their parents "negligent" too for not demanding to see the qualifications of the gas fitter? After all, chances are wrongly installed boilers happen no less frequently than a kidnapper breaking in so what's the difference?

Or how about aeroplanes pre-9/11 that didn't have locking doors to the cockpits. Were the authorities negligent too for not anticipating the very rare event of suicide bombers breaking in?

The point is that it's irrational to shout "negligent" post facto when a very rare event that no-one could reasonably be expected to anticipate with added security measures happens anyway.       

[L.A.]

Exactly my situation. We were really rocket scientists, but found that they blew up more often than flew.
In the end, we just accepted we were good at bombs (cos they are really easy).

Try that today and you'd probably be attracting the attention of MI5 - no wonder kids spend all their time in their bedrooms.

[Brownie]

A very sensible post bluehillside.

From what I have read over the last ten years, there are many people who resent the McCanns.  I cannot fathom the reason but that is how it appears to be.

[Jack Knave]

So pray tell us, what you saw?

Not some parents who had lost their child. People who were hiding something...

[Brownie]

Well Jack, it takes one to know one.

[Jack Knave]

Indeed they are so what do you mean? (after all it's not going to cost you much to explain)

At great expense to myself I'll explain to you what I meant. Anyone can say they are sorry or have regret or feel ashamed or whatever and not actually feel it. That is what is meant by words are cheap.

[wigginhall]

A very sensible post bluehillside.

From what I have read over the last ten years, there are many people who resent the McCanns.  I cannot fathom the reason but that is how it appears to be.

Yes, it's an odd example of abnormal collective psychology, almost as if people envied them the attention, their way of life, and so on.   Plus of course, the usual barking mad conspiracy theories, products of sick minds.   

[Jack Knave]

Ah the old reverse snobbery. They didn't grieve like I would, I would have done... etc etc. What do the chips on your shoulders taste of?

Not as bad as your neurosis.

[Jack Knave]

Seriously Jack, who would not grieve and suffer acute anxiety over the abduction of their daughter ?  They were a couple who wanted children and who initially had difficulty conceiving, Madeline was extremely precious.

Well they seemed quite calm and composed like psychotics might.

[Jack Knave]

That ought to simplify our justice system then - all we need to rely on is how the defendant is perceived on video clips!

Maybe they could make a 'Reality TV show' out of it!

Not everyone is as perceptive as I am, so sadly it can't be utilized.

[bluehillside Retd.]

JK,

Not some parents who had lost their child. People who were hiding something...

So the fact of a couple heartbroken and distraught but not spilling their guts in a public forum so as to demonstrate to your personal satisfaction that were suffering enough translates in your mind to "people who were hiding something"?

What the fuck is wrong with you?

[Brownie]

What's this Jack?  Tit for tat?

------------------

Wigginhall, it does seem like that though there's no sense to it. 

It's such a horrible, heartbreaking case.  Since we've been talking about it I can't stop imagining the little girl being terrified and hurt.   Her parents must have such thoughts all the time!  Those who are being, frankly, vicious about the McCanns are not thinking about Madeline's pain at all, they are just enjoying being nasty.

--------------------

Jack again:  "..they  "seemed quite calm and composed like psychotics might."


Again I say, it takes one to know one.
Or are you merely a WUM?

[bluehillside Retd.]

JK,

Well they seemed quite calm and composed like psychotics might.

You have no idea how they were in private. Which would be the better way to maximise he likelihood of reuniting with their daughter: public appeals that were rational and coherent, or wailing and crying?

That's not "psychotic", it's sensible.

There's something very odd going on here. When a couple who are middle class, professional and educated go about finding their daughter the way all their instincts and training tell them will be most effective they're vilified for not being Jeremy Kyle enough for the ravenous masses. They're doctors: they knew full well that the best way to help in terrible circumstances was to work the problem in the most effective way possible. You should only hope that they're just the type of people you encounter if ever you're in desperate straits. If you really would prefer a doctor who takes one look then starts sobbing and tearing her hair out though, perhaps you should say so on the way to A&E?   

[Jack Knave]

In my day we had to lick rood cleen with tong before we got a clip round  ear and sent down tu mines....but they were happy days.

[Brownie]

Conforming to type now.
Definitely a WUM.

[Jack Knave]

JK,

So the fact of a couple heartbroken and distraught but not spilling their guts in a public forum so as to demonstrate to your personal satisfaction that were suffering enough translates in your mind to "people who were hiding something"?

What the fuck is wrong with you?

It was more than that. Their response to it was not normal and I got the same feeling every time they were on TV etc. years afterwards.

I'm fine thanks.

[wigginhall]

What's this Jack?  Tit for tat?

------------------

Wigginhall, it does seem like that though there's no sense to it. 

It's such a horrible, heartbreaking case.  Since we've been talking about it I can't stop imagining the little girl being terrified and hurt.   Her parents must have such thoughts all the time!  Those who are being, frankly, vicious about the McCanns are not thinking about Madeline's pain at all, they are just enjoying being nasty.

--------------------

Jack again:  "..they  "seemed quite calm and composed like psychotics might."


Again I say, it takes one to know one.
Or are you merely a WUM?

I don't agree about there being no sense to it.  It's quite common, a mixture of voyeurism, envy, scape-goating, and then the weird stuff from sick minds.   I suppose the scape-goating is the most important element, here is a witch, I'm so glad I'm not like her, because I am virtuous, burn her.

[Jack Knave]

Jack again:  "..they  "seemed quite calm and composed like psychotics might."


Again I say, it takes one to know one.
Or are you merely a WUM?

It takes one to know oneself to see these things it does not take one to be one to do so.

No!

[Brownie]

Wigginhall:  I'm so glad I'm not like her, because I am virtuous, burn her.

Reminds me of Luke 18:11-14:

11The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other people--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector.  12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

New International Version (NIV)

So very apt.

[wigginhall]

See under Christianity, burning people.