Christian Zionists and antisemitism

[ippy]

You never mentioned anything about schools. Anyway, if a parent wishes to send their children to a religious school it's nobody elses business but theirs.

Ad O, it's hardly my fault you haven't been following this part of this thread and didn't realise I was referring to the youngest children in our schools.

You have every right to bring up your children how you see fit, like you I wouldn't see it otherwise, but all I would be doing is to level the playing field by, for starters removing the undeserved place religious followers have imposed on our schools funded by government money and by default making a precedent that it's so perfectly acceptable to have specific lessons about religions is perfectly normal; just so perfectly normal for religions to have a privileged place in our curriculum.

Well the above has been the norm for too many decades now it's time religion was put into its place as no more a special lesson than any other, so levelling the playing field would necessarily put religion into its long overdue place the private sector.

In effect if you wish to bring up your children into one or the other of these faiths, fine, do it in your own time and don't inflict it on others within our school system, in effect a publicly funded recruiting system.

It's not the religion I'm so much against it's the unwarranted religious privileges, I look forward to seeing the end of all of these religious privileges, It would be a bonus too if religious belief were to descend into the lower leagues where they belong, but there if it pleases people to follow these ancient beliefs well good luck to them.

Funny we don't hear much about Zeus these days? I wonder why?

ippy     

[Jack Knave]

No it's not fascism to rule out specific lesson space about religion to the more vulnerable pre seven year old young children in our schools, it wouldn't be right to keep presenting say unionism either, plus giving lessons about any one subject would tend in its self to lend gravitas to any subject presented in this manner, religion in this case.

I would be on your side if the population in general were being oppressed and prevented from practising their religion outside of school hours, now that could be seen as fascism and I would have no part of it.   

Children below the age of seven, on average, are at a particularly vulnerable age and I wouldn't want to see or hear about them having any isms or religions getting very much more than an occasional mention to this particular group.   

ippy

Sounds very sensible to me. Don't know what the theists are whinging on about.

[Ricky Spanish]

Christian Zionists and antisemitism


« on: 15 August 2016, 22:21:53 »


Christian Zionists - i.e. the staunch defenders of Israel, mostly from the charismatic, fundamentalist and dispensationalist camps - are tiresomely fond of accusing of antisemitism those of us who think that invading someone else's land and chucking them out is not cricket, and if the critics are Jewish themselves, not to be deprived of their favourite knee-jerk response, they accuse them of being self-hating Jews. I think it's about time to turn the tables on them. It is possible to be a Christian Zionist and an antisemite, as appears to have been the case with the recently clog-popped Tim LaHaye, who was a defender of Israel against all comers, but who also once said that it was a pity that so many brilliant Jewish minds had cleaved to ideologies which were harmful to humanity, which is an antisemitic statement if ever there was one: it's true, of course, but no more so than it is of brilliant minds in general, so why did he specify Jewish ones?


As a matter of fact, belief in Israel as the eternally-promised homeland of the Jews, and that the return of the Jews to Israel is a necessary precursor to the return of Christ, dovetails neatly with one particular manifestation of antisemitism: that which says that, since the Jews now have Israel, they should all be there, and not here. There is a hint of this in those nutty Christian groups which try to persuade Jewish people to emigrate to Israel, and provide help in doing so. It is certainly true that the existence of Israel can encourage antisemitism: there used to be a Jewish community in Iraq - it was small, but very ancient, probably dating all the way back to the first-century diaspora. It doesn't exist any more, because Saddam Hussein chucked them all out, specifically arguing that they could go an live in Israel, so they had no grounds for complaint. That, presumably, is precisely what they did, but the point is that you shouldn't treat people as political pawns like that.

Where the fuck are you twats taking this??

[Ricky Spanish]

.. I'm guessing down the Corbyn train gate route.. because that is the level of intelligence.. intekignce3, intellighgance. What I've been told...

[ippy]

Sounds very sensible to me. Don't know what the theists are whinging on about.

I can answer that J K, theists find it almost impossible to give up their privileges, they've got so used to having all sorts of privileges, they can no longer see them a such, so when anyone even sugests removing any one of them, they're inclined to think they are being persecuted and that's why the whinging.

Theists don't want a level playing field, probably because of the lack of evidence that could support their ideas, if there were any, so they need anything that they can grab hold of that might further their cause.

ippy

[Jack Knave]

I can answer that J K, theists find it almost impossible to give up their privileges, they've got so used to having all sorts of privileges, they can no longer see them a such, so when anyone even sugests removing any one of them, they're inclined to think they are being persecuted and that's why the whinging.

Theists don't want a level playing field, probably because of the lack of evidence that could support their ideas, if there were any, so they need anything that they can grab hold of that might further their cause.

ippy

You would have thought that they would have had faith in their mighty God to provide for all their needs and make their religion strong and victorious...? Guess not.

[ippy]

You would have thought that they would have had faith in their mighty God to provide for all their needs and make their religion strong and victorious...? Guess not.

Ditto, something like that.

ippy

[~TW~]

Christian Zionists - i.e. the staunch defenders of Israel, mostly from the charismatic, fundamentalist and dispensationalist camps - are tiresomely fond of accusing of antisemitism those of us who think that invading someone else's land and chucking them out is not cricket, and if the critics are Jewish themselves, not to be deprived of their favourite knee-jerk response, they accuse them of being self-hating Jews. I think it's about time to turn the tables on them. It is possible to be a Christian Zionist and an antisemite, as appears to have been the case with the recently clog-popped Tim LaHaye, who was a defender of Israel against all comers, but who also once said that it was a pity that so many brilliant Jewish minds had cleaved to ideologies which were harmful to humanity, which is an antisemitic statement if ever there was one: it's true, of course, but no more so than it is of brilliant minds in general, so why did he specify Jewish ones?
As a matter of fact, belief in Israel as the eternally-promised homeland of the Jews, and that the return of the Jews to Israel is a necessary precursor to the return of Christ, dovetails neatly with one particular manifestation of antisemitism: that which says that, since the Jews now have Israel, they should all be there, and not here. There is a hint of this in those nutty Christian groups which try to persuade Jewish people to emigrate to Israel, and provide help in doing so. It is certainly true that the existence of Israel can encourage antisemitism: there used to be a Jewish community in Iraq - it was small, but very ancient, probably dating all the way back to the first-century diaspora. It doesn't exist any more, because Saddam Hussein chucked them all out, specifically arguing that they could go an live in Israel, so they had no grounds for complaint. That, presumably, is precisely what they did, but the point is that you shouldn't treat people as political pawns like that.

Should there be anyone{and I doubt it} on here who believes this dispensation-ism Tim La Haye nonsense.I can say it is not going to happen it is pure nonsense,and can be dis proved with about 3 scriptures.So what we have here is a thread  going nowhere.

~TW~

[ippy]

Should there be anyone{and I doubt it} on here who believes this dispensation-ism Tim La Haye nonsense.I can say it is not going to happen it is pure nonsense,and can be dis proved with about 3 scriptures.So what we have here is a thread  going nowhere.

~TW~

Your contribution adds that element of assuredness to the whole thread ~TW~, where are you most other times, when we need you?

ippy

[Sassy]

Spot-on, Jack.... for an atheist you have amazing insight.

Christ condemned the Jews because the Pharisees and Sadducees that he was addressing were followers of the Talmud and not the Torah.

I do not believe Christ condemned anyone....John 3:17 tells us Jesus didn't come to condemn but to save. It wasn't about being followers of the Talmud or the Torah.
The religious beliefs held by Pharisee and Sadducee differed and the written and Oral law could also be seen as being divisive. But the Messiah was to bring the final truth.
Such as resurrection, angels and so unite all in the one final covenant.

Christians become Jews those whose hearts are circumcised to the truth. So one covenant for Jew and Gentile. It is only natural that believers would have a love for Jerusalem and the whole of Israel and the people who are Gods people. Sad that so much discourse exists.


Christ also pointed out that the Pharisees knew the truth but did not enter into it themselves and prevented others from doing so. I think that was the bigger beef that Christ had with the Pharisees and the Sadducee. The righteousness of believers had to surpass theirs.
Jesus Christ is that righteousness.