God sends natural disasters to punish gays

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Any religion which teaches that homosexuality between consenting adults is wrong needs to be attacked and corrected.

Until the offending passages are removed from the Bible, Christianity must be subjected to strong opposition.

And any other religion, Len?

[trippymonkey]

I would say yes!
But what if some feel that THAT religion is unchanging, cough ISLAM cough cough & CAN'T be changed in ANY way ....?!!?!?!?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I would say yes!
But what if some feel that THAT religion is unchanging, cough ISLAM cough cough & CAN'T be changed in ANY way ....?!!?!?!?

And is there another religion ....apart from the two you and Len have mentioned?

[trippymonkey]

Of course,yes, but we know the Bible's been altered anyway......

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Of course,yes,

.....and which one would that be?

[Hope]

Any religion which teaches that homosexuality between consenting adults is wrong needs to be attacked and corrected.

Why?

Until the offending passages are removed from the Bible, Christianity must be subjected to strong opposition.

Again, I'd ask 'why'?  Remember that throughout history, pretty well every culture and humn society has frowned on homosexuality. Why should 21st Century Westrern society be any more correct than these other cultures and societies ?

If you think about it, over the last 2000 years, people have made comparable attacks on the Bible over a number of issues, such as the role of women in Christianity, over slavery, over injustice on a huge range of levels, attitudes to the Jews: when the Bible has been studied even reasonably carefully, it has been found that what the Bible says on all such issues is pretty well what its detractors say.  I'd agree that, in several cases, over time some of the teachings of Christ and his followers (including Paul) became twisted to suit human power structures, but that accusation can be laid at the feet of pretty well every way of thinking without detracting from the core teachings.  Interestingly, the real changes seem to have come with the adoption of Christianity by the Roman Empire - at a time when 'secular' political influence on the church was perhaps at its greatest.

[floo]

Why?
Again, I'd ask 'why'?  Remember that throughout history, pretty well every culture and humn society has frowned on homosexuality. Why should 21st Century Westrern society be any more correct than these other cultures and societies ?

If you think about it, over the last 2000 years, people have made comparable attacks on the Bible over a number of issues, such as the role of women in Christianity, over slavery, over injustice on a huge range of levels, attitudes to the Jews: when the Bible has been studied even reasonably carefully, it has been found that what the Bible says on all such issues is pretty well what its detractors say.  I'd agree that, in several cases, over time some of the teachings of Christ and his followers (including Paul) became twisted to suit human power structures, but that accusation can be laid at the feet of pretty well every way of thinking without detracting from the core teachings.  Interestingly, the real changes seem to have come with the adoption of Christianity by the Roman Empire - at a time when 'secular' political influence on the church was perhaps at its greatest.

Society has frowned on a lot of things in the past without good reason, like being left-handed for instance. Maybe now in the 21st century society is beginning to wise up where homosexuality is concerned, and realise that people of the same sex have just as much right to be in a consensual adult relationship, and all that entails, as heterosexuals.

[Aruntraveller]

ITs simple Floo - haters are gonna hate.

Religion is a convenient peg for some haters to hang their hats on. As we see here sometimes.

[Brownie]

I would say yes!
But what if some feel that THAT religion is unchanging, cough ISLAM cough cough & CAN'T be changed in ANY way ....?!!?!?!?

What's all this "Cough, cough" business and excessive punctuation marks fgs?  You certainly don't change, never mind evolve.  Never mind your pitiful anti-Islamic obsession.
.........
Quote from: Leonard James on Today at 07:57:04 AM
Any religion which teaches that homosexuality between consenting adults is wrong needs to be attacked and corrected.

Hope: Why?
............

Everything must be challenged Hope.  I don't believe the best way of challenging is to attack.

[floo]

ITs simple Floo - haters are gonna hate.

Religion is a convenient peg for some haters to hang their hats on. As we see here sometimes.

Religion is a very convenient excuse for nasty bigots. Fortunately as I know for a fact, many Christians are not anti-gay, and are disgusted by those who are.

It must be sickening for you and Leonard James, our two openly gay posters, to see anti-gay Christians one minute extolling the virtues and 'love' of god,  and the next condemning same sex relationships!

[Aruntraveller]

It must be sickening for you and Leonard James, our two openly gay posters, to see anti-gay Christians one minute extolling the virtues and 'love' of god,  and the next condemning same sex relationships!

I can't speak for LJ - but for myself - it's been part of my life for so long that I pay no heed most of the time. That's not to say I don't notice it, but that if I reacted every time I did then it would affect my life more and to its detriment.

You have to pick & choose your times when to react. Hope starting a cod post about a weird preacher in the US is not one of them. He used it as, yet again, a way to raise one of his favourite topics (wait for the wail of disavowal) and to then raise a beast that doesn't exist:

I think what made me laugh is that both here and elsewhere, there seems to be a belief amongst some posters that this is an 'evangelical Christian' understanding.

I haven't seen anyone on here post such views.

So it's a false post from the off. Just Hope indulging his predilection for mildly irritating homophobia.

[Brownie]

I've not seen anyone on here post such views either but the likes of the Westboro' Baptists are sometimes brought up as examples of evangelical Christians, which fires people up.  I imagine that is what Hope means.

[Aruntraveller]

I imagine that is what Hope means.

Well if it is then he should be more careful with his wording. After all, he isn't bothered about using his schoolmarmish ways if others make a mistake with their use of English.

[floo]

I've not seen anyone on here post such views either but the likes of the Westboro' Baptists are sometimes brought up as examples of evangelical Christians, which fires people up.  I imagine that is what Hope means.

I can think of one poster on this forum who is probably the nearest we get to the Westboro' Baptist nasties.

[Nearly Sane]

I can think of one poster on this forum who is probably the nearest we get to the Westboro' Baptist nasties.

That's a truism that says nothing about any poster being anywhere close to the Westboro Baptists.

[Hope]

Society has frowned on a lot of things in the past without good reason, like being left-handed for instance. Maybe now in the 21st century society is beginning to wise up where homosexuality is concerned, and realise that people of the same sex have just as much right to be in a consensual adult relationship, and all that entails, as heterosexuals.

Floo, there is a difference between being "in a consensual adult relationship" - something that has been legal from the latter stages of the 20th century, and the treating of that consensual relationship as on a par with heterosexual marriage.

At the same time, 20th/21st Century Western society seems happy to harbour behaviours that even you have happily condemned - such as human trafficking; paedophilia and other forms of child abuse; international trade injustice; an ever-widening gap between the rich and the poor -  both within developed and developing nations, and between developed and developing nations/blocs- ie trade injustice. 

People may, probably will, argue that healthcare and education provision is improving - even when Government and other sources suggest that they are struggling.  Hospitals in the West are getting busier and busier, and dwealing with ever more complex conditions; surely healthcare ought to be improving the people's health in the first place, not simply spending ever more time/money treating the conditions.

Why should the liberalisation of attitudes towards homosexual activity suddenly be seen to be bucking those trends?

[Hope]

Well if it is then he should be more careful with his wording.

I try to make the same point - such as that which Brownie has just highlighted - in as many different ways as possible over time, Trent.  Otherwise, simply repeating points word for word, gets a tad tedious. 

[Aruntraveller]

I try to make the same point - such as that which Brownie has just highlighted - in as many different ways as possible over time, Trent.  Otherwise, simply repeating points word for word, gets a tad tedious.

I think you overestimate the effect your variation of wording has on its ability to ameliorate the tediousness of your points.

[Gordon]

Floo, there is a difference between being "in a consensual adult relationship" - something that has been legal from the latter stages of the 20th century, and the treating of that consensual relationship as on a par with heterosexual marriage.

Why are some relationships between consenting adults not 'on a par' with others?

At the same time, 20th/21st Century Western society seems happy to harbour behaviours that even you have happily condemned - such as human trafficking; paedophilia and other forms of child abuse; international trade injustice; an ever-widening gap between the rich and the poor -  both within developed and developing nations, and between developed and developing nations/blocs- ie trade injustice.

In what ways are these issues equivalent to relationships between consenting adults? 

People may, probably will, argue that healthcare and education provision is improving - even when Government and other sources suggest that they are struggling.  Hospitals in the West are getting busier and busier, and dwealing with ever more complex conditions; surely healthcare ought to be improving the people's health in the first place, not simply spending ever more time/money treating the conditions.

That some areas of public policy might involve delivery or planning weaknesses isn't surprising: but in what way is this relevant to relationships between consenting adults?

Why should the liberalisation of attitudes towards homosexual activity suddenly be seen to be bucking those trends?

Because it is about removing discrimination and treating all relationships between consenting adults equitably: why should that be a problem?

[Hope]

I think you overestimate the effect your variation of wording has on its ability to ameliorate the tediousness of your points.

Well, since that is a condition that pretty well everyone suffers from here, Trent, one has to wonder whether the rehashing of the same old topics is actually worthwhile.

[floo]

Floo, there is a difference between being "in a consensual adult relationship" - something that has been legal from the latter stages of the 20th century, and the treating of that consensual relationship as on a par with heterosexual marriage.

At the same time, 20th/21st Century Western society seems happy to harbour behaviours that even you have happily condemned - such as human trafficking; paedophilia and other forms of child abuse; international trade injustice; an ever-widening gap between the rich and the poor -  both within developed and developing nations, and between developed and developing nations/blocs- ie trade injustice. 

People may, probably will, argue that healthcare and education provision is improving - even when Government and other sources suggest that they are struggling.  Hospitals in the West are getting busier and busier, and dwealing with ever more complex conditions; surely healthcare ought to be improving the people's health in the first place, not simply spending ever more time/money treating the conditions.

Why should the liberalisation of attitudes towards homosexual activity suddenly be seen to be bucking those trends?

Of course a consenting adult homosexual relationship is on a par with a heterosexual one, you just don't want to see it that way!

[Aruntraveller]

Well, since that is a condition that pretty well everyone suffers from here, Trent, one has to wonder whether the rehashing of the same old topics is actually worthwhile.

And who instigated the rehashing of this topic? 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Of course a consenting adult homosexual relationship is on a par with a heterosexual one, you just don't want to see it that way!

Hmm.....I can see less potential strife in a relationship between two affable chaps or chapesses who are probably pipesmokers than between a man and a woman.

[Aruntraveller]

Hmm.....I can see less potential strife in a relationship between two affable chaps or chapesses who are probably pipesmokers than between a man and a woman.

Don't you believe it!

[floo]

Hmm.....I can see less potential strife in a relationship between two affable chaps or chapesses who are probably pipesmokers than between a man and a woman.

Why would they be pipe smokers?