Author Topic: Standing up to unlawful infringement tickets  (Read 1905 times)

Hope

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25569
    • Tools With A Mission
Standing up to unlawful infringement tickets
« on: August 19, 2016, 06:21:02 PM »
https://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/Parking-Notice

I'd be interested to know what folk here think of this idea/site He is trying it on. But then so do many bailiffs, and traffic wardens.

I have seen off three parking tickets, and a congestion charge notice. Not by trying it on, but by showing diligence.

« Last Edit: August 22, 2016, 05:55:15 PM by Humph Warden Bennett »
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Harrowby Hall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5038
Re: Standing up to unlawful infringement tickets
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2016, 08:44:40 PM »
It always amazes me that people are prepared to pay £20,000 for a motor vehicle and the take every opportunity to avoid paying a single penny for it to be safely stored when not in use. By their nature most private motor vehicles spend the greatest part of their existence standing motionless and locked. And contrary to many people's obvious opinion the possession of a driving licence should not be considered an invitation to unlimited freedoms but providing limited permission to engage in a restricted range of activities involving motor vehicles.

The democratic process has provided the definition of instances where double yellow lines may be painted and enforced. They are there for the general benefit not just to antagonise people who think that they have a God-given right to park anywhere for their temporary convenience.

My general view is the possession of a motor vehicle should be seen as providing a great number of opportunities but also imposing some obligations - which may be tiresome. Stunts and tricks like the ones in the referred website may be clever but also demonstrate a level of self-centredness that we can all do without.

The use of "infringement" here is confrontational. What is being infringed?
« Last Edit: August 19, 2016, 08:47:07 PM by Harrowby Hall »
Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

Hope

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25569
    • Tools With A Mission
Re: Standing up to unlawful infringement tickets
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2016, 10:06:08 PM »
The use of "infringement" here is confrontational. What is being infringed?
People's right to legally-binding local (in this situation) legislation, if I understand the site correctly.  It seems that there are a number of places where double yellow lines have been placed without proper legal authority, not to mention the habit of supermarkets, etc. to limit parking to a given period of time with th threat of a fine if you overstay.  Many of these, whilst legit in general terms, are couched in such poor language as to be easily challenged.  In some cases, they are so poorly patrolled as to result in people not being booked when they should be and others being booked when they haven't been in the parking area anywhere near the limiting period of time.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

Harrowby Hall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5038
Re: Standing up to unlawful infringement tickets
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2016, 11:39:44 PM »
Supermarket car parking is a civil not criminal matter.

Here we have some bloke who uses a modern version of a John Bull printing kit to produce a warning notice that is considerably more spurious than the supposed incorrect definition of double yellow lines.
Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

Harrowby Hall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5038
Re: Standing up to unlawful infringement tickets
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2016, 09:57:15 AM »
I was very tired when I wrote the last contribution.

The web site appears to be concerned with getting people out of messes they freely entered into knowing the consequences of such entry: to walk away from debt.

I regard double yellow lines as devices to improve and optimise traffic flow not as impositions on my personal freedom. As such I benefit from them.

The instances the writer quotes appear to be total selfishness on his part - so that he would not be forced to expend valuable calories to move his (presumably) obese carcass one step more than was absolutely necessary in his view. I do not see where the legality or otherwise of the parking restriction comes into it.

The notice on his car is fatuous. If he tried to enforce it (and if his vehicle was worth less than £40,000) any action would be thrown out of court on the grounds that it was a vexatious action and he would have to bear the cost. The methods of dealing with trivial incidents that would never have occurred had he done a little bit of forethought appear to be a combination of aggression and bullshit baffles brains.

I agree that, for example, the penalties charged by companies acting on behalf of supermarkets are disproportionate to the damage done. I think - though am possibly wrong - that the law on this subject is unclear, that appropriate cases have yet to be heard in the High Court, since decisions in courts of first instance are not binding. My understanding generally (again possibly not accurate) is that damages awarded are limited to the actual harm done.

I think, Hope, that if this was an attempt on your part to restore blessedness to the meek - or some such - that you are misguided. I see little to consider the originator of the article as little more than self-centred myopic. This does not mean that there are not other parts of the website concerned that do offer excellent advice on dealing with corporate bullies.

« Last Edit: August 20, 2016, 10:01:37 AM by Harrowby Hall »
Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

jeremyp

  • Admin Support
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32506
  • Blurb
    • Sincere Flattery: A blog about computing
Re: Standing up to unlawful infringement tickets
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2016, 10:24:44 AM »
https://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/Parking-Notice

I'd be interested to know what folk here think of this idea/site
Or he could just park legally and not be a selfish lazy git.

I've been driving for 30 years and never had a problem with not parking on double yellow lines.
This post and all of JeremyP's posts words certified 100% divinely inspired* -- signed God.
*Platinum infallibility package, terms and conditions may apply

floo

  • Guest
Re: Standing up to unlawful infringement tickets
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2016, 10:28:29 AM »
Or he could just park legally and not be a selfish lazy git.

I've been driving for 30 years and never had a problem with not parking on double yellow lines.

Same here.

I wish they would clamp cars around our way, some park completely on  the pavement, meaning walkers have to walk into the road. That really does my head in.

jeremyp

  • Admin Support
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32506
  • Blurb
    • Sincere Flattery: A blog about computing
Re: Standing up to unlawful infringement tickets
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2016, 10:29:12 AM »
It always amazes me that people are prepared to pay £20,000 for a motor vehicle and the take every opportunity to avoid paying a single penny for it to be safely stored when not in use.
As a rule, people have a totally skewed idea of the costs involved in car ownership. They concentrate on the trivial because it's right there and they can see it and they forget about the big ticket items like depreciation and servicing because they don't have to think about it most of the time.
This post and all of JeremyP's posts words certified 100% divinely inspired* -- signed God.
*Platinum infallibility package, terms and conditions may apply

jeremyp

  • Admin Support
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32506
  • Blurb
    • Sincere Flattery: A blog about computing
Re: Standing up to unlawful infringement tickets
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2016, 10:30:51 AM »
Same here.

I wish they would clamp cars around our way, some park completely on  the pavement, meaning walkers have to walk into the road. That really does my head in.
Actually, I disagree with clamping. "We don't want you to park your car here, so we will make it impossible to move it somewhere else" - it's illogical captain. I think there should be more towing.
This post and all of JeremyP's posts words certified 100% divinely inspired* -- signed God.
*Platinum infallibility package, terms and conditions may apply

floo

  • Guest
Re: Standing up to unlawful infringement tickets
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2016, 10:34:33 AM »
Actually, I disagree with clamping. "We don't want you to park your car here, so we will make it impossible to move it somewhere else" - it's illogical captain. I think there should be more towing.

Whatever, but something should be done. I have complained to the council as it is dangerous for pedestrians, especially kids and the elderly, to have to walk into the road to pass these cars. But the council has not responded.

Sebastian Toe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7719
Re: Standing up to unlawful infringement tickets
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2016, 12:14:36 PM »
Whatever, but something should be done. I have complained to the council as it is dangerous for pedestrians, especially kids and the elderly, to have to walk into the road to pass these cars. But the council has not responded.
You could always get something made up to stick on their windscreens.
'This car driven by a selfish tit' might be appropriate?
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

floo

  • Guest
Re: Standing up to unlawful infringement tickets
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2016, 12:29:43 PM »
You could always get something made up to stick on their windscreens.
'This car driven by a selfish tit' might be appropriate?

Really, hardly legal!

jeremyp

  • Admin Support
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32506
  • Blurb
    • Sincere Flattery: A blog about computing
Re: Standing up to unlawful infringement tickets
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2016, 02:44:14 PM »
Really, hardly legal!
As long as it can be removed without damaging the car, it will be fine. Either that or all the people who put fliers under my windscreen wipers while I am at festivals need to go to prison.
This post and all of JeremyP's posts words certified 100% divinely inspired* -- signed God.
*Platinum infallibility package, terms and conditions may apply

Hope

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25569
    • Tools With A Mission
Re: Standing up to unlawful infringement tickets
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2016, 04:15:17 PM »
To return to the original OP,  the original poster of this (on Streetlife) has clarified the situation.

"Got done, my argument was the sign makes it look like loading vehicles can only load during those times but doesn't prohibit cars parking during those times. Council & parking agreed & said they would look into changing signs & making more clear."

As such, I'm not sure that the original purpose of this thread ius valid anymore, but feel free to continue commenting on the wider issues involved.
Are your, or your friends'/relatives', garages, lofts or sheds full of unused DIY gear, sewing/knitting machines or fabric and haberdashery stuff?

Lists of what is needed and a search engine to find your nearest collector (scroll to bottom for latter) are here:  http://www.twam.uk/donate-tools

L.A.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5278
    • Radcliffe U3A
Re: Standing up to unlawful infringement tickets
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2016, 08:15:13 AM »
https://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/Parking-Notice

I'd be interested to know what folk here think of this idea/site He is trying it on. But then so do many bailiffs, and traffic wardens.

I have seen off three parking tickets, and a congestion charge notice. Not by trying it on, but by showing diligence.

I've always wanted to sneak-up on the clampers and stick one of these 'personal' clamps on their vehicle - I wonder if anyone has ever had the nerve to try it?
Brexit Bar:

Full of nuts but with lots of flakey bits and a bitter aftertaste