Burkini vs Bikini

[Nearly Sane]

If a woman wants to wear a burkini they should be permitted to do so.

I don't think it should be permitted for anyone to walk around in public wearing the full burka, which also covers the face. Anyone could be beneath it, including someone who wishes to harm others.

How goes that change if you can see someone's face?

[BeRational]

So if I regard something as wrong but more people don't I should just shut up?

In addition one of the tenets of a culture that allowa the bikini is a form of freedom, so shouldn't those who argued for that part of the culture also be recognised.

You have to fit in with the culture.
If you don't it will cause friction.
If you want friction, then go to another culture and act against it, see how it goes.

[floo]

How goes that change if you can see someone's face?

Fine if their face is completely uncovered, so they can be identified.

[JP]

It can be argued about until the cows come home but France seems to be in a bad place right now and there is a struggle, not only in France, with how to deal / cope with the divides in society.

Celebrating difference and respecting others. How does that work then.

 

[Nearly Sane]

You have to fit in with the culture.
If you don't it will cause friction.
If you want friction, then go to another culture and act against it, see how it goes.

this seems an argumentum ad consequentiam. And again how dies one promote societal change, by your logic Wilberforce was wring to campaign against slavery.

Further you have ignored the point that part of the culture in Europe is freedom in such matters. Cultures are wide ranging things containing many often contradictory opinions.

[Nearly Sane]

Fine if their face is completely uncovered, so they can be identified.

But how does seeing someone's face stop that person from intending harm?

[Nearly Sane]

It can be argued about until the cows come home but France seems to be in a bad place right now and there is a struggle, not only in France, with how to deal / cope with the divides in society.

Celebrating difference and respecting others. How does that work then.

Are you suggesting we shouldn't respect others or have any differences?

[floo]

t his does seeing someine's face stop that person from intending harm?

No of course not but anyone could be hiding under a full burka, including a guy. Some places in the UK discourage people wearing hoodies, which is a good thing.

[BeRational]

Are you suggesting we shouldn't respect others or have any differences?

Up to a point yes.

Are you saying you would tolerate anything?

[JP]

Are you suggesting we shouldn't respect others or have any differences?

Not at all, but this applies to everyone.

[Nearly Sane]

No of course not but anyone could be hiding under a full burka, including a guy. Some places in the UK discourage people wearing hoodies, which is a good thing.

then why did you make the point that someone wearing a burqa might want to harm people?

If anyone needs to see a face for identification purposes then I agree people need to show their face, other than that not bothered.

[Nearly Sane]

Not at all, but this applies to everyone.

I agree so we should respect the person's rights to wear a burkini.

[Nearly Sane]

Up to a point yes.

Are you saying you would tolerate anything?

No, where did you get that from. Respect others creates responsibilities so me killing you is not tolerated by such rules because it doesn't respect you.

[JP]

I agree so we should respect the person's rights to wear a burkini.

Or respect the law about dress and religious symbolism.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

The ban on berkinies, looks like a French own goal to me.

Unfortunately it's more of a secularists home goal.

[Nearly Sane]

Or respect the law about dress and religious symbolism.

So Wilberforce should have respected the law on slavery?

[Nearly Sane]

Unfortunately it's more of a secularists home goal.

Ah so all of what France does in the name of laicite is to be ascribed to all secularists? Does that mean that I can ascrube all of IS acts to you since you and they seem to be anti secularist?

[BeRational]

No, where did you get that from. Respect others creates responsibilities so me killing you is not tolerated by such rules because it doesn't respect you.

And the French are not tolerating this form of dress as it is not in line with their culture, so what's the difference?

[Nearly Sane]

And the French are not tolerating this form of dress as it is not in line with their culture, so what's the difference?

again as pointed out thus idea of culture being a single position is incorrect. There is also a cultural norm in freedom to dress in Europe.

As to the specific question, again it's about respect for the individual in a liberal society. That a majority might want something doesn't make it right in western liberalism.

[JP]

Respect works both ways.

[BeRational]

again as pointed out thus idea of culture being a single position is incorrect. There is also a cultural norm in freedom to dress in Europe.

As to the specific question, again it's about respect for the individual in a liberal society. That a majority might want something doesn't make it right in western liberalism.

There is no right or wrong just accepted norms.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Ah so all of what France does in the name of laicite is to be ascribed to all secularists? Does that mean that I can ascrube all of IS acts to you since you and they seem to be anti secularist?

Are you or more to the point is Ippy saying that the achievement of secularism does not involve the removal of public religious symbolism?

You have already called me antisecularist on account of my opposition to this act.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

There is no right or wrong just accepted norms.

what if acceptance is split 50-50?

[BeRational]

what if acceptance is split 50-50?

Then you upset 50%

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Ah so all of what France does in the name of laicite is to be ascribed to all secularists? Does that mean that I can ascrube all of IS acts to you since you and they seem to be anti secularist?

Oh so I'm an antisecularist now?

Mind you if being a secularist involves wearing a uniform these days.