Burkini vs Bikini

[jeremyp]

Trent said they were possibly mocking a little after I wrote my reply. Had it been satire perhaps Trent should have said it was satire.

Why should he have to say it was satire when it obviously was?

Nice to see you make a non contribution to a very serious matter.

Nice to see you joining in with the sniping when the subject is so serious.

[Nearly Sane]

Trent said they were possibly mocking a little after I wrote my reply. Had it been satire perhaps Trent should have said it was satire. Nice to see you make a non contribution to a very serious matter.

If you can't recognise Trent's post as satire, then I suggest you need to buy a sense of humour. Satire is serious.

[Jack Knave]

I don't know know which men are violent but some are. That breeds fear and mistrust. Ban men.

And that is what happens. We tend to live in denial and a naïve, innocent state of mind but when say a paedophile man rapes a child in a community all parents then become edgy about allowing their young kids out in that community. That's human nature. Every man is then looked upon suspiciously especially if he seems to be acting in a odd way.

[Brownie]

Well you would know I suppose but from what I have read and heard, paedos generally blend in well and don't have obviously 'odd' ways.

Muslim dress identifies a person as a Muslim but nowt else.
Traditional Hindu dress does the same for Hindus, Orthodox Jews dress in a particular, uniform way.
So we know the above people adhere to a particular religion, I'm not scared of the religion of others.

[Hope]

And that is what happens. We tend to live in denial and a naïve, innocent state of mind but when say a paedophile man rapes a child in a community all parents then become edgy about allowing their young kids out in that community. That's human nature. Every man is then looked upon suspiciously especially if he seems to be acting in a odd way.

Sadly, the female equivalent tends to be ignored even more than usual when this happens.

[Nearly Sane]

Sadly, the female equivalent tends to be ignored even more than usual when this happens.

eh?

[Brownie]

Sadly, the female equivalent tends to be ignored even more than usual when this happens.

You need to explain that, Hope.  Though we are straying away from religious dress.

[trippymonkey]

Know what you mean but RELIGIOUS DRESS ?!!!? Burkini??? And why always black !?!?!?

[Brownie]

Not always black trippy.  This one is a nice colour and they come in other colours.  I think they are quite chic.

https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/ad_201671569-e1459589338805.jpg?w=964&h=639&crop=1

[trippymonkey]

So is it not really a 'shape' issue but skin visibility thing ?!?!?

[Bubbles]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3528329/Viewers-blast-One-s-burkini-versus-bikini-debate-models-parade-shopping-centre-swimwear.html

Further down in the article there are some bright and snazzy ones.

They would probably suit me because I hate getting sunburnt.

Nothing to do with Islam.

I like them.

[Bubbles]

So is it not really a 'shape' issue but skin visibility thing ?!?!?

Does it matter?

Why should women be forced to expose their skin if they don't want to?

Presumably if I wanted to cover up in France as a non Muslim who hates getting sunburnt I would get fined for doing so?

It's unreasonable IMO.

If I want to cover my skin up, that should be my choice.

I shouldn't have to bare my skin, just because other people want to.

In France then, what happens if a non Muslim wears it? Or leggings and a top?

Are the police going to let them off purely because they are white and non Muslim ?

It's prejudiced rubbish!

There isn't much difference between a burkini and someone choosing to wear leggings and a top that covers their arms on the beach.

So they might choose to swim in it, so what?

You can't fine people just because some of those people happen to be Muslim.

I'm annoyed to think if I went on a beach in France I could be fined for choosing to wear leggings and a top and that if I found I wasn't, then it's because I'm white, basically.


The whole thing is unreasonable. I'm not sure which is worse, being fined for leggings and a top on the beach, or not fined because I'm basically white.

Both scenarios offend me.

People telling women what they can or can't wear again! 

 

I think I'd wear my top and leggings and tell them to stuff their fine up their arse!

As a non Muslim I think I'd make my point 

[Bubbles]

Just came across this

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/23/burkini-bans-in-france-have-sales-of-full-body-swimsuit-soaring-says-designer

Lots of non Muslims like the idea of protecting skin from the Sun.

I think France might find it backfires.

[Brownie]

Yes trippy, it is a covering up skin thing - which lots of people do!!

Rose, your posts are so sensible, thank you.  I'm glad to see sales of the full body swimsuit going up, everyone nowadays knows the dangers of too much sun exposure.   It's been a common thing for children to wear little wet suits and head coverings for years, about time adults caught onto it.

This is nice and quite simple, all one colour:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AlHamra-Capri-Modest-Burkini-Swimwear-Swimsuit-Burqini-Muslim-Islamic-Sportwear-/161109344346?var=&hash=item2582dd805a:m:mI996JO2DWgU9E8uvsDIoZQ

I like this one, quite dramatic:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Islamic-swimsuit-swimming-costume-swimwear-Burkini-muslim-full-cover-women-girls-/381748593133?hash=item58e1fd41ed:g:29QAAOSwXj5XF0Tl

[JP]

Why should he have to say it was satire when it obviously was?
Nice to see you joining in with the sniping when the subject is so serious.

Serious enough to suggest men with little moustaches should be banned and "Never trust em".

It is not about the burkini issue, that was only the latest saga in a long story. This is from a study in May I believe and the associated article in which the president of the French Council of the Muslim Faith seems to think (as usual) it is pretty much all about misunderstanding, conflating Islam and terrorism however director of the poll sadid the findings suggested the deterioration of Islam’s image in France wasn’t triggered by the attacks, that there are other factors, so while the attacks contributed, there is basically and quite simply a growing resistance within French society to Islam with common ground between both the political right and the left.

The study found that 47 percent of French people and 43 percent of Germans felt that the Muslim community poses a “threat” to national identity.

Almost two-thirds of the respondents in France also said that Islam had become too “influential and visible”, whereas just under half of participants said the same in Germany.

And there's more.....

The Ifop poll found that over two-thirds of respondents in both countries thought that Muslims had failed to integrate into society, a situation that 67 percent of French people and 60 percent of Germans blamed on a refusal to adapt to local values and customs.

http://www.france24.com/en/20160429-france-germany-unease-with-islam-rise-new-poll-finds






 

[ippy]

Yes trippy, it is a covering up skin thing - which lots of people do!!

Rose, your posts are so sensible, thank you.  I'm glad to see sales of the full body swimsuit going up, everyone nowadays knows the dangers of too much sun exposure.   It's been a common thing for children to wear little wet suits and head coverings for years, about time adults caught onto it.

Surly if you see someone in one of these berkinis you might think, a bit weird, but that's about it you'd then just get on with your own thing and forget about it?

Now bikinis are not quite so easy to put out of the mind, primal thoughts, so I'm told, etc, not for you Brownie, it's probably bread and bread in your case.

ippy

[Brownie]

Never make assumptions ippy    .

[ippy]

Never make assumptions ippy    .

Never make assumptions ippy 

Now bikinis are not quite so easy to put out of the mind, primal thoughts, so I'm told, etc, not for you Brownie, it's probably bread and bread in your case.

I didn't.

ippy

[Brownie]

Gluten free ?

[ippy]

Gluten free ?

Could be, but I'm not saying.

ippy

[Brownie]

Spoilsport.

[ippy]

Spoilsport.

How many more silly sods are we expected to deal with on this forum, as if there's not enough allready.

ippy

[Brownie]

Hope you're not calling me a silly sod, ippy.
Anyway I'm hungry, off for a nice baguette with lots of salad and cheese.
C U latah!

[Udayana]

Serious enough to suggest men with little moustaches should be banned and "Never trust em".

It is not about the burkini issue, that was only the latest saga in a long story. This is from a study in May I believe and the associated article in which the president of the French Council of the Muslim Faith seems to think (as usual) it is pretty much all about misunderstanding, conflating Islam and terrorism however director of the poll sadid the findings suggested the deterioration of Islam’s image in France wasn’t triggered by the attacks, that there are other factors, so while the attacks contributed, there is basically and quite simply a growing resistance within French society to Islam with common ground between both the political right and the left.

The study found that 47 percent of French people and 43 percent of Germans felt that the Muslim community poses a “threat” to national identity.

Almost two-thirds of the respondents in France also said that Islam had become too “influential and visible”, whereas just under half of participants said the same in Germany.

And there's more.....

The Ifop poll found that over two-thirds of respondents in both countries thought that Muslims had failed to integrate into society, a situation that 67 percent of French people and 60 percent of Germans blamed on a refusal to adapt to local values and customs.

http://www.france24.com/en/20160429-france-germany-unease-with-islam-rise-new-poll-finds

Yes, so essentially the issue is one of fear of culture change. Culture is always changing anyway, so why the extreme reactions? As people are so emotionally attached to arbitrary rules, symbols and attitudes surely the answer is just to take things slowly and let there be integration and evolution of culture and identity at a pace people can cope with and that is beneficial rather than destructive?

In the meantime we can deal with the global economic and environmental issues that provoke the poverty and wars causing mass migrations?

[Brownie]

Following Jeremy's post I was wondering about Muslims not integrating into society and their "refusal to adapt to local values and customs", since which I have been trying to work out what that means, precisely.

Setting my religious beliefs aside, if I went to live in another country, one with an ethos that embraced freedom of religion, would I be expected to give up my cultural identity (whatever that is), and dress, speak and eat in the same way as the indigenous population?  I'd be pleasant and open, probably socialise, make friends and work with them, my kids would go to school with theirs, but I'd still be me - an English person with 'foreign' ways.

Indeed the British took up residence in many countries and were renowned for imposing their way of living on the inhabitants.

I've come across many Muslims, and others, and never had any feeling that they were basically different to me, despite clothing, customs, religion.  We got along fine.   It would be appallingly arrogant of me to suggest to a Muslim neighbour or colleague that they should 'stop being so Muslim' and be more British because they live here.

Moving on a bit, I went to the dentist today and perused three red top newspapers in between the hygienist and dentist:  apparently 57% of people in the UK would support a ban on the burqa.

If I was a young Muslim woman and believed a ban on the burqa was imminent, I would start wearing one if only to make a statement!  That already happens with the hijab;  lots of girls feel they have to wear something that shows they are not ashamed to be Muslim, even if their mothers didn't.  What a world, aye?

Anyway, the 57% of Brits is only 57% of those surveyed, no-one has asked me.